You might be able to buy these by themselves. I think they might be a somewhat standard size used in various cars.
Wishbone replacement
- Thread starter mikec
- Start date
That sounds fairly 'brute'. More than I thought. Not sure I want to be cutting through cast iron/steel, and reefing on it like crazy, not that I even have an angle grinder. I thought using a pry bar with moderate force might clear the bracket/subframe, and the back could be tapped out while the arm is pulled by hand (or hands). But now I see console bracket removal in my future... ? Maybe it's all for the best though...
damadgeruk
A2OC Donor
The wishbone I removed was a fairly corroded pressed unit, cast should be 'easier' though I don't think there is access to tap the pin out from the rear of the bush. You may be luckier than me though expect issues. Plan for the worst and hope for the best.
Kleynie
A2OC Donor
We replaced pressed steel arms with the cast ones from Meyle early in 2018, no issues yet. We replaced the bushes without removing the console, Lazer do a tool for this and it worked well. I think it’s worth replacing the bushes whilst you have the arms out.
However, it’s a two man job with a large crow bar and much brute force to get the arms into the new bush.
Oh, and the front bolts came out without a problem after a good soaking of WD40
Ian
However, it’s a two man job with a large crow bar and much brute force to get the arms into the new bush.
Oh, and the front bolts came out without a problem after a good soaking of WD40
Ian
hydo14
A2OC Donor
Having now done this three times (don't ask) I have absolutely zero comprehension on how the wishbone comes out without use of a puller which requires the wishbone and console assembly to come out the car, let alone putting the new wishbone back in! Props to all of you who have managed it ?.
justin-20V
Member
It will be interesting to see which of the aftermarket brands work out best as it looks like they will be the only ones readily available. If anyone happens to have a TRW or Lemforder pair (if so, please let me know !) I would still prefer to fit these as they definitely seem to be the best - and in many cases are still the ones fitted from 15-20 years ago. I don't think Covid or brexit has helped with the parts supply, but I suppose the cars have reached that age now where we'll have to accept what we can get with some parts, which is a shame...
Tomscar
Member
Hi Mikec, if you do go down the console removal route then maybe buy yourself a set of subframe locating pins ... not very expensive and in theory all should go back together in the same position.
No affiliation to the link below:
Subframe Alignment Locating Pin Bergen 4pc VAG Set Suitable for VW AUDI 6189 for sale online | eBay
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dj_efk
A2OC Donor
Have you called KMS in Birmingham?
That’s where I got mine from last October and I’m sure someone on here more recently managed to get some Lemforder ones from there too.
justin-20V
Member
Yes, unfortunately no joy with KMS, all stock gone. Might try them again, you never know...
Thanks. My camber was -1.0/-1.3 (-0.3 to -1.0 I was told were the spec's), so I don't know if it makes a difference. Though, -1.3 was on the (now loose) right, so maybe a new wishbone will bring it back a bit.
Do I understand it correctly that the pins let you do two sides at the same time, whereas without them you can only do one, so that the subframe doesn't move? Do they just screw in to some currently empty holes?
Another, small, question: is a "20-50" ball joint puller a good size for the A2? I found one where they quote 22mm jaw diameter, 50mm max opening. I've been told that these tools are not one size fits all..
Attachments
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Tomscar
Member
Each of the locating pins has a tapered barrel that is free to move around the locating pin ... as you remove each of the subframe bolts you replace with the locating pin and tighten it down with an allen key ... the barrel is the same diameter as the hole in the console ... you leave the pins in place and when you put the console back on you are in the place where you started, hope that makes sense!!
You can do one side at a time without the pins to maintain the subframe position ... but you still have to mark the position of the console as it has a bit of tolerance where it can go back, it is much easier and more accurate with the pins.
I bought this joint separator and it did the job:
Draper 13914 Ball Joint Separator, 19mm Capacity, 22.3cm x 17.1cm x 5.3cm : Amazon.co.uk: Automotive
Buy Draper 13914 Ball Joint Separator, 19mm Capacity, 22.3cm x 17.1cm x 5.3cm at Amazon UK. Free delivery on eligible orders.
www.amazon.co.uk
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bretti_kivi
Member
does anyone have measurements for where the subframe is supposed to be located?
Does it maybe locate itself in position, once you locate the consoles? Like, what really matters is console position, for the geometry of the wheels, no? I haven't looked at the underneath of the car in a while though, and haven't taken things apart there ever though, so just thinking about it.
Tomscar
Member
Not really Mikec, if you take the consoles off then the subframe is free to move around (unless you have used the location pins) and also the steering rack is sitting on top of it. An Audi dealership might have the equipment to realign.
That's what I mean though... If you don't put the locating pins in, and unscrew everything (now the subframe is floating), then you 'just' 
need to place the consoles properly (e.g. audi dealer?), and the subframe will end up in the place it's supposed to be in once you screw it all back together... no? My reasoning is that what you really care about is wheel (and therefore console) position relative to the car chassis, and the subframe just follows. The steering rack obviously also has to be aligned at right angles to the longitudinal axis of the car.
Basically, I reason that the subframe alignment doesn't matter because the wheels are connected to the wishbones, which are connected to the consoles, and while those are connected to the subframe, they are also directly connected to the car (is this not true?), and the latter is what matters for geometry..
Still no cigar? Maybe I should look under the car before theorizing, lol.
PS. By 'locating the subframe' as per audi instructions, you're giving yourself assurance that it won't move when you take the consoles off, and therefore that when you put them back on, they will be in the same place as before, but technically, it doesn't matter where the subframe is on the car, what matters is where the consoles are, so asking about measurements of where the subframe should be doesn't make sense (if my reasoning is correct), but asking about measurements for the where the consoles should be, does. No?
need to place the consoles properly (e.g. audi dealer?), and the subframe will end up in the place it's supposed to be in once you screw it all back together... no? My reasoning is that what you really care about is wheel (and therefore console) position relative to the car chassis, and the subframe just follows. The steering rack obviously also has to be aligned at right angles to the longitudinal axis of the car.Basically, I reason that the subframe alignment doesn't matter because the wheels are connected to the wishbones, which are connected to the consoles, and while those are connected to the subframe, they are also directly connected to the car (is this not true?), and the latter is what matters for geometry..
Still no cigar? Maybe I should look under the car before theorizing, lol.
PS. By 'locating the subframe' as per audi instructions, you're giving yourself assurance that it won't move when you take the consoles off, and therefore that when you put them back on, they will be in the same place as before, but technically, it doesn't matter where the subframe is on the car, what matters is where the consoles are, so asking about measurements of where the subframe should be doesn't make sense (if my reasoning is correct), but asking about measurements for the where the consoles should be, does. No?
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Tomscar
Member
? Feel free to inhale on a Cuban ... but get under the car first and have a look ... it's really not a difficult job if you follow the procedure and you will know a lot more about geometry than me ... I personally don't see the need to drop the subframe out unless you are going to renovate or replace it but I do know from experience if it isn't done right the drivability will be ruined until it is put right.That's what I mean though... If you don't put the locating pins in, and unscrew everything (now the subframe is floating), then you 'just'
Basically, I reason that the subframe alignment doesn't matter because the wheels are connected to the wishbones, which are connected to the consoles, and while those are connected to the subframe, they are also directly connected to the car (is this not true?), and the latter is what matters for geometry?
Still no cigar?
Maybe I should look under the car before theorizing, lol.
Do one side at a time and draw around the consoles with a marker pen, the subframe won't move, this is how I done it and it was driving like new again afterwards, diy tracked using the string line method, driving up and down with a dead centred steering wheel and checking tyre wear etc
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bretti_kivi
Member
So there's a reason I ask the question.
Essentially it's this: I am reasonably sure my own console is not in the right place. And it's been out for so long that there are no markings as to where it should be.
How do I know? the cap does not fit on the top of the right shock.
Now: you have ways to move the mount within its position. But if the console is correct (and the tie rods are correct) then it should not be needed... practically, I know all of this has already been replaced and I'm sure the console is not in the right place. Now I've driven it with the new boots on at higher speeds, I feel it's bad - and since someone's going to be driving it quite a bit over then next months, I want to get it sorted.
I will probably go to my friendly mechanic tomorrow when I'm out of quarantine to talk through with him how we can move it and then get the geometry set correctly (as it will mean loosening an awful lot of bolts and some of them are stretch ones).
I'll also talk about the rear axle bushes I've had here for a while.
Essentially it's this: I am reasonably sure my own console is not in the right place. And it's been out for so long that there are no markings as to where it should be.
How do I know? the cap does not fit on the top of the right shock.
Now: you have ways to move the mount within its position. But if the console is correct (and the tie rods are correct) then it should not be needed... practically, I know all of this has already been replaced and I'm sure the console is not in the right place. Now I've driven it with the new boots on at higher speeds, I feel it's bad - and since someone's going to be driving it quite a bit over then next months, I want to get it sorted.
I will probably go to my friendly mechanic tomorrow when I'm out of quarantine to talk through with him how we can move it and then get the geometry set correctly (as it will mean loosening an awful lot of bolts and some of them are stretch ones).
I'll also talk about the rear axle bushes I've had here for a while.
Tomscar
Member
Hi Bretti ... if the car doesn't feel right then trust your instinct ... it probably isn't right.
I realised when reassembling mine that the consoles can be bolted up in a wide variety of positions, even after scribing around everything before taking apart.
I went old school on the next bit ...
Before tightening up the bolts fully, I sat the car back on it's wheels on the level garage floor and carefully eyeballed and measured the position within the wheel arches ... basically making sure they were central and vertical ... and then used a string line to check the tracking.
Even although the previous position was marked I still needed to nudge the consoles by a millimetre or so to get the measurements and look just right.
Not very scientific but it works for me.
steve_c
Grumpy OAP & A2OC Donor
I bought a pair of these last year:
FOR AUDI A2 FRONT LOWER AXLE LEFT RIGHT SUSPENSION WISHBONE CONTROL ARM ARMS SET | eBay
Product Description AUDI A2 FRONT LOWER LEFT RIGHT SUSPENSION WISHBONE CONTROL ARMS COMPLETE OE QUALITY TUV APPROVED BRAND NEW DIRECT REPLACEMENT PART 2 YEAR WARRANTY Buyer Guide AUDI A2 1.4 2000-2005 AUDI A2 1.6 FSI 2002-2005 AUDI A2 1.4 TDI 2000-2005 75 BHP AUDI A2 1.4 TDI 2003-2005 90 BHP...
www.ebay.co.uk
They appeared to be the original Lemforder castings with the Audi parts numbers ground off. They came sealed in plastic bags, marked on the packaging as being sold by Optimal in Germany. They are actually the version for the petrol engined variants (which suited me), went on with absolutely no problems and seemed excellent value.