[1.6 fsi] - Yet another misfire case

VETRA said:
One coil is different from the others - had been replaced, obviously. The other three, looks like, came from the factory.
I was silly enough not to take photos of the numbers on them. 🤦‍♂️

Does this coil pack look good?
www.ebay.co.uk

Bosch 0986221023 Ignition Coil for sale online | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Bosch 0986221023 Ignition Coil at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products!
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Click to expand...
Yes, those will be fine, and may well improve things, fingers crossed. Is there an equivalent to "fingers crossed" (sort of wish me luck), in French?
Mac.
 
@VETRA

Good Afternoon Vitaly

I see from your posts you appear to be using VCDS Version: 12.12.3.0, a very old version dating from 2013. As you are not using VCDS Lite I assume you have a genuine interface and VCDS updates are free from the Ross Tech website. Definitely worth updating now with all round benefits and in particular the inclusion of a new recent label file for the 1.6 BAD engine.

Ross-Tech: VCDS: Which Download

www.ross-tech.com

As a precaution before updating I would rename the current VCDS folder, say 'old VCDS', then if the update does not go well with your old interface you can always revert.

Andy
 
Andrew said:
@VETRA

Good Afternoon Vitaly

I see from your posts you appear to be using VCDS Version: 12.12.3.0, a very old version dating from 2013. As you are not using VCDS Lite I assume you have a genuine interface and VCDS updates are free from the Ross Tech website. Definitely worth updating now with all round benefits and in particular the inclusion of a new recent label file for the 1.6 BAD engine.

Ross-Tech: VCDS: Which Download

www.ross-tech.com

As a precaution before updating I would rename the current VCDS folder, say 'old VCDS', then if the update does not go well with your old interface you can always revert.

Andy
Click to expand...
If your VCDS is an "unofficial" version, don't attempt to update it, it'll almost certainly break. You could try adding the A2OC label file to the label folder.
Both I, and A2OC strongly disapprove of "dodgy" versions of commercial software.
Mac.
Mac.
 
VETRA said:
Thanks Mac!
Will try to do that somehow this week.

The earthing point was a bit rusted - I cleaned it up and tightened back about 2 months ago...

View attachment 130084

View attachment 130085

View attachment 130086

View attachment 130087
Click to expand...
Good Afternoon Again,

I am at sea looking at some of the pictures of a left hand drive (assume) engine bay, It is an Audi A2 1.6 FSI???

Another tip with checking the main earthing point is to check for degradation of the cable hidden by its outer coat. Check with a sharp tug.

Minor point, fix the hole in the scuttle, water will be pouring into the engine bay.

Andy

Andy
 
Thanks everybody!

yes, indeed i'm using a very old v12 VCDS. I'm just
a) old school and
b) lazy and
c) follow the rule "don't touch it if it works".

But looks like the day has come and you have shamed me enough 🤣 for me to fight my issue "b)" and click a few buttons to get the latest VCDS. :cool:

Andrew said:
the pictures of a left hand drive (assume) engine bay, It is an Audi A2 1.6 FSI???
Click to expand...
It is absolutely a LHD A2 1.6FSI :cool: that spent it's 22 years in Austria and now came to France to become my hobby and love =)

Andrew said:
Another tip with checking the main earthing point is to check for degradation of the cable hidden by its outer coat. Check with a sharp tug.
Click to expand...
How do I do that? should i puncture the thick wire's insulation and check resistance to a good ground?
what would be the good and the bad values? ☺️

Andrew said:
Minor point, fix the hole in the scuttle, water will be pouring into the engine bay.
Click to expand...
Yep, this is the next bullet in my todo list - right after the misfires... 🙈
 
VETRA said:
WOW!
Looks very similar indeed!
Ordered both - N80 and and a new filler cap. :cool: 🤝
I'll report how it goes)
Click to expand...
Hi,
Just wondering if you fot the fuel filler cap and did it make a difference. I ask as I had fairly similar symptoms of barely noticable hesitation/misfire at very low speed, say 4th gear 2000rpm 30mph and very small throttle opening and after reading the thread i got a Febi cap from Amazon and it feels like it has definately made a difference at small throttle and even across the rev range.
The old addage of 'basics first' applies!
Good luck
Mick
 
Greetings everybody!
After a short break (vacations) - we continue 😄
The fuel filler cap had been replaced with no noticeable effect, unfortunately.
N80 valve is received, but I had no time to install it so far (I don't want to do this while the engine is hot, if you know what I mean :cool:)
EML on, milage 222201 km, error codes:

VIN: License Plate: A2-2
Mileage: 222201 Repair Order: 22 October
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: Redir Fail!
Control Module Part Number: 036 906 013 F
Component and/or Version: MED7.5.11 4628
Software Coding: 00051
Work Shop Code: WSC 02138
Additional Info: WAUZZZ8Z53N005638 AUZ7Z0B2098087
VCID: 122DCA0A5E18EB8E3D9-5072
2 Faults Found:

16523 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor B1 S2
P0139 - 35-00 - Response too Slow
17428 - Fuel Pressure Regulation
P1020 - 35-10 - Control Range Exceeded - Intermittent

Readiness: 0010 0101

The error codes were then deleted and I recorded LOGs during driving.
3 log-files attached - different regimes - accelerations from 1000 to 6000 RPM, stable drives, mixed regimes.
Then I read the codes again - no error codes found!
Then I gave the car back to my friend and quite shortly he called me and said the EML light is back on.
Here are the error codes after my friend drove about 400 km:

VIN: License Plate: A2-2
Mileage: 222673 Repair Order: 5 November
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: Redir Fail!
Control Module Part Number: 036 906 013 F
Component and/or Version: MED7.5.11 4628
Software Coding: 00051
Work Shop Code: WSC 02138
Additional Info: WAUZZZ8Z53N005638 AUZ7Z0B2098087
VCID: 122DCA0A5E18EB8E3D9-5000
8 Faults Found:

17428 - Fuel Pressure Regulation
P1020 - 35-10 - Control Range Exceeded - Intermittent
16523 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor B1 S2
P0139 - 35-00 - Response too Slow
18043 - Powertrain Data Bus
P1635 - 35-10 - Missing Message from A/C Controller - Intermittent
17584 - Bank1: O2 (Lambda) Correction Behind Catalyst
P1176 - 35-00 - Control Limit Reached
16684 - Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
P0300 - 35-00 -
16685 - Cylinder 1
P0301 - 35-10 - Misfire Detected - Intermittent
16686 - Cylinder 2
P0302 - 35-00 - Misfire Detected
17439 - Intake Manifold Tuning Valve (N316)
P1031 - 35-10 - Setpoint Not Reached - Intermittent

Readiness: 0000 0001

Future plans
- replace N80 valve (no big hopes here, but since I have it...)
- try injector cleaner in the tank
- try valve cleaner (spray into inlet manifold)
 

Attachments

Ah, yes!
I forgot to say - before all that's written above I have replaced the ignition coils!
That made a HUGE difference!
First day or two I could barely feel the misfires, but then they slowly creeped back again 👹

Some photos:
New coils are ready to be installed (a photo for those who wonder what the LHD 1.6 FSI looks like =)))
1730798022851.jpeg

New BOSCH coil, made in Turkey =)
1730798145689.jpeg

New VS Old coils
1730798272036.jpeg

Old coils (in proper sequence 1-2-3-4):
1730798232478.jpeg
 
Hi everybody!
Hi @PlasticMac !
Could you kindly have a look if these logs tell you anything please?
VETRA said:
3 log-files attached
Click to expand...
☝️🥹

Meanwhile 2 updates...

First.
N80 valve replaced. No change. At first I thought it helped, but then the misfires and eventually the Check-Engine light came back again.
I had the computer with me and I read the errors immediately. Usually I have a lot of errors, but this time - only two:
17428 - Fuel Pressure Regulation
P1020 - 35-10 - Control Range Exceeded - Intermittent
16523 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor B1 S2
P0139 - 35-00 - Response too Slow

Second.
As it became colder these days I noticed one thing and it's interesting.
When the car is cold - it works perfectly.
Then after 4-5 miles the coolant heats up to ~80 degrees, the car is well wormed-up and it's still perfect.
Then after another 4-5 miles - that's when the first misfire occurs. And then another one....
And then the misfires go more and more dramatic and if not careful - the Check-Engine light will show.

Now. That said, the remaining suspects are:
1. Dirty intake valves
2. Faulty injectors
3. High Pressure Fuel Pump (HPFP)

The first two would have caused misfires immediately, even at cold, or at least 1-2 miles after start, not 10 miles after start, right?
This leads me to a 600Eur purchase..... :eek:⚰️

Is there any way to diagnose the HPFP?

Thank you!
 
VETRA said:
Hi everybody!
Hi @PlasticMac !
Could you kindly have a look if these logs tell you anything please?

☝️🥹

Meanwhile 2 updates...

First.
N80 valve replaced. No change. At first I thought it helped, but then the misfires and eventually the Check-Engine light came back again.
I had the computer with me and I read the errors immediately. Usually I have a lot of errors, but this time - only two:
17428 - Fuel Pressure Regulation
P1020 - 35-10 - Control Range Exceeded - Intermittent
16523 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor B1 S2
P0139 - 35-00 - Response too Slow

Second.
As it became colder these days I noticed one thing and it's interesting.
When the car is cold - it works perfectly.
Then after 4-5 miles the coolant heats up to ~80 degrees, the car is well wormed-up and it's still perfect.
Then after another 4-5 miles - that's when the first misfire occurs. And then another one....
And then the misfires go more and more dramatic and if not careful - the Check-Engine light will show.

Now. That said, the remaining suspects are:
1. Dirty intake valves
2. Faulty injectors
3. High Pressure Fuel Pump (HPFP)

The first two would have caused misfires immediately, even at cold, or at least 1-2 miles after start, not 10 miles after start, right?
This leads me to a 600Eur purchase..... :eek:⚰️

Is there any way to diagnose the HPFP?

Thank you!
Click to expand...
I can't see them log files, change them to .txt, and attach them. Let me know the original format please, (CSV, xlsx etc).

Group 140 is the Fuel Rail Pressure data. A log, Start the log, before starting the engine. Start with a cold engine. The pressure with the engine not running is the electric pump. Once the engine is running, you'll see the setpoint and actual, and how much the regulating valve, (N276), is working to achieve the required pressure.
Get that done, before an thing else.
Mac.
Edit:
 
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Good Evening Vitaly,

I looked at the logs you posted last week and saw nothing untoward, meant to post to this effect but got diverted, sorry.

Still not updated VCDS!

@PlasticMac. I changed .txt to .csv and they opened fine in Excel.

Andy

Andy
 
Hello @VETRA,
Was looking at that photo of the LHD FSI engine bay.
Spotted pipe looking a bit squashed, is it alright?
What does the pipe do?
Screenshot_20241113_194109_DuckDuckGo.jpg
Cheers 🙂👍
 
Andrew said:
Good Evening Vitaly,

I looked at the logs you posted last week and saw nothing untoward, meant to post to this effect but got diverted, sorry.

Still not updated VCDS!

@PlasticMac. I changed .txt to .csv and they opened fine in Excel.

Andy

Andy
Click to expand...
I'd missed those logs, I'll have a look tomorrow, sorry.
Mac.
 
Doesn’t look like it’s reoccurred in the last few scans, but the earlier occurrence of “17414 - Torque Difference Cylinder 3” doesn’t bode well, it basically means that cylinder 3 is down on power, which is due to either a blocked/damaged injector, or bad compression, either bad valve(s), piston rings, or cylinder head gasket failure
 
@VETRA Hi, I think that the cheapest things that you can do in this order are; to check the fuel pressure via vcds and secondly to get cheap compression tester and/or leak down tester.

Fuel issues could lead to all the rest errors that you are seeing but not the other way around.
 
Hello everybody and thanks for your replies!
An update on the story:
- the misfires are still there.
- I got a bit tired around Christmas break, so i did not do much. I only replaced the charcoal filter for the fuel tank ventilation. That did nothing, obviously.
- Now I'm back to the little love of mine and want to continue the search =)
- I did the compression test - flawless.
- checked the valves with endoscope - some 'dirt' is present, but nothing crucial.

I noticed (in this video Mac posted, but also in all the other videos and posts):
PlasticMac said:
Edit:
Click to expand...
I noticed that the Channel 140.1 (Quantity control valve) shows various numbers.
Mine shows always zero. Never seen anything other than zero.
This is also the case in the logs I posted earlier...

I did the executives test with VCDS and the N290 valve clicks, so it works...
(nr 4 in the picture, courtesy of @A2Steve)
1741685255581.png


Do you have any ideas, why is the valve never asked to operate ?

Cheers and thanks everybody!
 
VETRA said:
Hello everybody and thanks for your replies!
An update on the story:
- the misfires are still there.
- I got a bit tired around Christmas break, so i did not do much. I only replaced the charcoal filter for the fuel tank ventilation. That did nothing, obviously.
- Now I'm back to the little love of mine and want to continue the search =)
- I did the compression test - flawless.
- checked the valves with endoscope - some 'dirt' is present, but nothing crucial.

I noticed (in this video Mac posted, but also in all the other videos and posts):

I noticed that the Channel 140.1 (Quantity control valve) shows various numbers.
Mine shows always zero. Never seen anything other than zero.
This is also the case in the logs I posted earlier...

I did the executives test with VCDS and the N290 valve clicks, so it works...
(nr 4 in the picture, courtesy of @A2Steve)
View attachment 135691

Do you have any ideas, why is the valve never asked to operate ?

Cheers and thanks everybody!
Click to expand...
The valve is the N276 Rail Pressure Control Valve. In your video it is operating at the start, but as soon as the Actual Rail Pressure rises above the Setpoint Pressure, it opens fully. (Closinging angle is actually the duty cycle of the PWM signal to the N276. I changed this in the latest version of the lbl file).
The N276 is trying to reduce the pressure, by bleeding the excess via the return to tank line. That doesn't seem work though.
Could be the N276 itself, but could also be the so called "Fuel Pressure Regulator" 5 in the diagram.
This valve is not a regulator. It is a pressure reducing valve, which reduces the bleed pressure from the Fuel Rail, (which is very high pressure), to a much lower pressure that's safe to to return to the tank.
Mac.
 
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