Advanced driving tuition / assessment - Anyone have experience & recommendations?

Agree with above. Bikers have a different perspective and are generally better at perceiving hazards.
IAM is a good plan.
However, it won't protect you from idiot drivers and they seem more common these days. The highway code states that you should give way to vehicles already on a roundabout. If you had passed the give way line before he entered the roundabout, you had right of way. A good dash cam is essential these days!
 
Ian Bigg said:
.... I found that having a bike made you a "better" car driver. I have seen done EFADS , " blue light" training, HGV1 etc etc etc. Have all the licences including tracked vehicle.
....
Get a CBT course from a local bike instructor and that WILL improve your road usage and make you think a lot more about cars and how they will hurt you. Once you have done your CBT you don't need to get a motorbike , its just a great way to improve your own knowledge and driving ability
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Agree completely, except I'd add that while you don't NEED to get a bike.... I have come late to the motorbike world and I did a fairly intensive series of lessons (in January & February: character-building) and passed my unrestricted licence at the first attempt. It teaches you very good road awareness, defensive driving (not as negative as it sounds), and now I find myself doing most of the motorbike safety tricks while driving the car (you'll learn about "lifesavers"... look it up). It's not cheap but worth it from a car-driving perspective and you get to have a motorcycle licence burning a hole in your pocket as a billy-bonus. No telling where that could lead.
 
I actually did do a CBT / rode a moped (well, a 50cc screamer trials-style Suzuki!) for about 8 months or so when I was 16 - But probably too young to have taken any notice of the safety-related cues because, well - invincible. That said, it did teach me to have a lot of respect for bikers and give them lots of room, also same for when I was cycling to and from work every day in Singapore, where car drivers are less forgiving of cyclists here.

@Tractor Dave - If you don't mind, I'd like to pick up on your statement around vehicles on a roundabout having right of way before a vehicle enters it - as this is a very common misconception and is actually not correct - See this link:

185
When reaching the roundabout you should

  • give priority to traffic approaching from your right, unless directed otherwise by signs, road markings or traffic lights
  • check whether road markings allow you to enter the roundabout without giving way. If so, proceed, but still look to the right before joining
  • watch out for all other road users already on the roundabout; be aware they may not be signalling correctly or at all
  • look forward before moving off to make sure traffic in front has moved off.

So you see, the overriding rule with a roundabout is to give way to traffic approaching from your right - Whether you / the vehicle approaching has or has not entered the roundabout is irrelevant: If by entering the roundabout you will cause another road user approaching from the right to take action, then you should stop and give way. The common confusion comes from bullet point no. 3 - which really is just saying you should watch out for (therefore implying - but not instructing - to give way to if needed) traffic that has already committed to their entry on to the roundabout - It might seem like the same thing but the difference matters in exactly this situation. In practice, if everyone drove with care and at an appropriate speed it should never matter!

In my case, if I had slowed down and perhaps looked more carefully, I would have seen the approaching BMW (or seen the approaching headlamp glow from beyond my limit of vision) - Perhaps the insurance companies would have argued the toss about it had a collision occurred, but it certainly would not have been clear-cut in my favour.
 
Showing my age here as it appears the highway code was changed some years ago!
Lots of debates on this on line and I have no intention of starting another here.
My point is that if someone enters a roundabout at such speed that people do not have a chance to see him and react before they enter the roundabout, he is at fault, regardless to the fact that technically he had right of way.
 
I have Mind Driving by Stephen Haley on my book shelf. It is very good. The main gist of it is that driving skill is only one part of driving safely. The other parts are correct attitude and understanding where the risks are and how to mitigate them. Your near-miss reminded me of this book, the author makes the point that accidents are rare, it usually takes two to have one, and therefore the absence of accidents is only a rather crude indicator of someone's driving ability. On the other hand for every accident there are many almost-accidents. Such near-misses are a lot more common and are a more reliable indicator of driving ability. So, measure your driving by your near-misses and strive to have none. Another point the author makes is that safe driving begins long before you get into the car, you start by deciding if you should drive - recognise the risk. for example if you are tired or if the driving conditions are poor, and whether it is worth taking that risk.
 
When my late father started driving there were no driving tests; you just applied for a licence and away you went. He was given 2 pieces of advice:
"Better to be 5 minutes late in this world than 35 years too early in the next world" - still good advice I'd say
and
"Remember: there's an idiot round the next corner" - well there may not be but if you drive on the basis that there is then you may miss the accident that's waiting for you.
 
The definition of an "accident" is an unforeseen occurrence having an adverse physical effect. The police mostly stopped using the word accident many moons ago and relabled them as being "collisions". There is basically always an element of blame on at least one party involved so therefore not entirely unforeseen.
 
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Lots of good advice here. main thing is you're interested enough to ask. Bear in mind 95%* of drivers take no further training after passing their test, yet the majority consider themselves 'good' drivers, and are happy to admonish other road users based on a vague memory of the Highway Code from decades ago.

When I was in my 20's I worked for one of Ford's agencies, and was lucky enough to attend the two week driving course Ford usually put their young development engineers on before they started. It was run by a couple of ex-Hendon head-cases out Essex way, and included track and skid pan elements.

It massively changed my attitude and technique, and I follow the model today, although things have changed. For example, they would happily cross the centre line to increase visibility, even with other traffic around (asking for trouble nowadays, plus guaranteed to give any passenger the heebie jeebies) and the de-restricted sign was referred to as the 'GLF' sign (go like flip.....) We practised overtaking drill across Essex in a dark coloured Sierra Sapphire Cosworth. It felt a bit healthy compared to the ones I'd driven before - one afternoon the instructor showed me the ECU in the glovebox. There was a bit of masking tape on the box, with the word 'Blomqvist' written on it, so it had clearly found its way out of Boreham where the rally team were based. It explained why it would hit the limiter in 5th on open Essex A roads.

While some of the more sanctimonious elements amongst IAM/Rospa give their organisations a bad name, in my experience (on 2 and 4 wheels), most of them are enthusiasts and their guidance and mentoring are incredible value and I would recommend them to anyone.

*I didn't quite make that stat. up but its close.
 
Looks like to you've had plenty input already as is typical of this great collective of people who share a common passion in the A2.

The only driver instructor training I've experienced was with John Lyon. If he's still around look him up. A character and takes no fools. He previously taught the police high speed pursuit driving and is highly regarded.

Without going into the whole process the one mantra to take from John's wisdom is "matching speed with vision".

Other subtle yet profound pearls are part of the learning in initially just a half day in your car both being driven by John and yourself.

It changed me as a driver but I do keep reminding myself the basic mantras of driving well.

HPC I think is the course
 
Evoman said:
Looks like to you've had plenty input already as is typical of this great collective of people who share a common passion in the A2.

The only driver instructor training I've experienced was with John Lyon. If he's still around look him up. A character and takes no fools. He previously taught the police high speed pursuit driving and is highly regarded.

Without going into the whole process the one mantra to take from John's wisdom is "matching speed with vision".

Other subtle yet profound pearls are part of the learning in initially just a half day in your car both being driven by John and yourself.

It changed me as a driver but I do keep reminding myself the basic mantras of driving well.

HPC I think is the course
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If John is still around he'll still be coaching, based in the Peterborough area. He will be in his early eighties, but usually was mistaken for someone 10 years younger.

While John Lyon literally wrote the book on advanced driving, younger members should be aware that's he's a tough, unreconstructed, old school b*****d, who will call a spade a sh1t shovel. And while I have no reason to speak ill of him, his politics are like Atilla the Hun's without the fluff.
 
Extreme advanced driving techniques and the 3 point turn

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Cheers Spike

PS the link should work without logging into Facebook
 
I does work without logging in to Facebook. You mean 3 (hundred) point turn.

On the subject of IAM membership I would recommend it to all. I've been a member now for almost 40 years, and during that time I have only ever once been responsible a collision with another car, that was back in 1984. The observation skills they teach really do keep you out of trouble. It's also worth mentioning that in that time I have driven the equivalent of to the moon and back and back to the moon.

I recently made contact with my local York group for some information and an update on Advanced Driving techniques, I'm teaching my son to drive. I took the A2 along because I wanted to drive a manual. I'm not sure the high seating position or the miserly 75hp helped my case but the assessment was that I'm a Police driver not an Advanced Driver. I received some useful tips on a small number of changes over the years and my questions regarding driving techniques were clarified. Police driving, that I was taught in the 80s, emphasises driving with deliberation and making progress, always in the most responsive gear. Advanced Driving, appears to emphasise smoothness, refinement and economy, a three pot diesel giving it full beans doesn't cut it. The things that haven't changed though are the observation and anticipation skills, these are the skills that keep you out of trouble whether you drive like a Bobby on a case or a Chauffeur who's never split the champagne. It's worth taking the IAM course for those observation skills even if you never become a full member.

Alternatively just do one of their free assessments. York group do them on weekends, I think throughout the summer, starting March. There will be a Group close to you; https://www.iamroadsmart.com/local-groups#findyourgroup
 
philward said:
I does work without logging in to Facebook. You mean 3 (hundred) point turn.

On the subject of IAM membership I would recommend it to all. I've been a member now for almost 40 years, and during that time I have only ever once been responsible a collision with another car, that was back in 1984. The observation skills they teach really do keep you out of trouble. It's also worth mentioning that in that time I have driven the equivalent of to the moon and back and back to the moon.

I recently made contact with my local York group for some information and an update on Advanced Driving techniques, I'm teaching my son to drive. I took the A2 along because I wanted to drive a manual. I'm not sure the high seating position or the miserly 75hp helped my case but the assessment was that I'm a Police driver not an Advanced Driver. I received some useful tips on a small number of changes over the years and my questions regarding driving techniques were clarified. Police driving, that I was taught in the 80s, emphasises driving with deliberation and making progress, always in the most responsive gear. Advanced Driving, appears to emphasise smoothness, refinement and economy, a three pot diesel giving it full beans doesn't cut it. The things that haven't changed though are the observation and anticipation skills, these are the skills that keep you out of trouble whether you drive like a Bobby on a case or a Chauffeur who's never split the champagne. It's worth taking the IAM course for those observation skills even if you never become a full member.

Alternatively just do one of their free assessments. York group do them on weekends, I think throughout the summer, starting March. There will be a Group close to you; https://www.iamroadsmart.com/local-groups#findyourgroup
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What constitutes 'good' driving does appear to have changed over time. Having said that being 'always in the most responsive gear' is going to be pretty wearing for any passengers. Better to leave that to when you're on your own making progress, and drive like the chauffeur with company. My partner wonders why I had my Bini re-mapped when all I do is toodle around. She's a terrible passenger so the toodling is entirely for her benefit, when I'm on my own I make the most of the re-invigorated B48, and the fantastic roads around my Goodwood home.
 
Shoestring7 said:
Having said that being 'always in the most responsive gear' is going to be pretty wearing for any passengers.
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I think that is what the observer felt, combined with the high seating position and resulting sway around feeling it didn't work for him. I tried his high gear for economy approach but felt vulnerable, not enough engine braking and not enough instant grunt when needed. Add a rattly three pot TDi giving it full beans at times and I suspect he preferred his Jag. That said the only thing I really got marked down on was holding the steering wheel at 10 02. Apparently best practice is now 09 03 but I don't like the feeling of less control. so I'm still at 10 02.
 
This is interesting.
Steering at 10/02 is actually preferred.
You have more movement of the steering either steering left or right without taking your hands off the wheel.
A higher gear is fine but the engine should be pulling and not on over-run.
Full beans in a Tdi is using torque so at lower revs. If your observer wanted you to rev up your Tdi, he is simply incorrect and applying Petrol engine methodology.

Have fun and stay safe..
 
donp38 said:
This is interesting.
Steering at 10/02 is actually preferred.
You have more movement of the steering either steering left or right without taking your hands off the wheel.
A higher gear is fine but the engine should be pulling and not on over-run.
Full beans in a Tdi is using torque so at lower revs. If your observer wanted you to rev up your Tdi, he is simply incorrect and applying Petrol engine methodology.

Have fun and stay safe..
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It’s a good job that there’s at least one IAM Observer who is a member on here who knows the nature of the TDI 75 quite well. But interesting points as I have a IAM national observer qualification coming up soon and will be in the A2 for it.

Either way, obviously I will add further endorsement to completing some form of additional driver training as I think that it is very worthwhile, ultimately until pretty much all cars are autonomous the biggest liability towards road safety is the meat sack between the steering wheel and seat back that at all times has to manouver a 1-tonne blunt weapon safely and appropriately in a multitude of different complex environments. In an ideal world everyone driving would do some form of advanced training but being able to anticipate and spot hazards before they become a problem certainly goes a long way to helping you not be involved in an incident.

Regarding the time commitments for IAM, I always ask what the associate can do and tailor accordingly and can keep sessions quite short if needed and would like to think that the same goes for other observers.
 
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My local County Council (Hampshire), do assessments sessions for those of us who are over 60.
One hour mixed driving, with advice given at the end, and writen report to follow).
Check if your local authority does something similar.
Mac.
 
donp38 said:
This is interesting.
Steering at 10/02 is actually preferred.
You have more movement of the steering either steering left or right without taking your hands off the wheel.
A higher gear is fine but the engine should be pulling and not on over-run.
Full beans in a Tdi is using torque so at lower revs. If your observer wanted you to rev up your Tdi, he is simply incorrect and applying Petrol engine methodology.

Have fun and stay safe..
Click to expand...
If you Google most recent best practice for holding the steering wheel 09/03 is recommended. This is to avoid thumb damage if the airbag deploys.
My own feeling is I’m less likely to get into a situation where the bag deploys if I hold at 10/02. I’ll risk the broken thumbs.
 
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