Information Audi A2 3L - Bought as non-runner...

Thank you for your concern Steve.

I will look at all of the information that I can gather and make my decision based on that if it is possible or not.

I'm not going to do anything daft but I'm not going to accept anyone else's word on something like this... I will have a look first.

MG
 
There are extensive thoughts on the process elsewhere, including from A2-D2 on the German forum. Legal it is not.

- Bret
 
Thanks Bret. It may not be legal in Germany but there are no laws against it within the UK.

I am not interested in other peoples thoughts on it.

I also plan on adding a tow-bar to my Audi 1.2TDi which also would not be legal in Germany...

Did you have some photos as above please?

MG
 
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bretti_kivi said:
There are extensive thoughts on the process elsewhere, including from A2-D2 on the German forum. Legal it is not.

- Bret
Click to expand...

Illegal in what sense, Bret - can you elaborate, and in what countries would such a modification be illegal.
I think providing more detail is valuable.

Clearly any such modification needs to be undertaken with a great deal of care as the mounting points don't just mount the seats, they prevent them from being thrown around the cabin in the event of something nasty occuring.

Cheers
Jeff
 
Four seats not five in teh V5 document. On my Part 1, it's section s.1. Never mind the insurance company and the other red tape.

The CoC is a valid document across Europe and any changes are only legal where authorised and tolerated by the local authorities. The Towbar story is one where there are individual cases where a specific inspector has allowed the fitment. It's possible there are unacceptable limits on the towing weights added - so a 'bar could be used for a bike rack but not to tow a trailer. I don't know the story and I haven't asked.

The big reasons for the 1.2 not having the towbar involve the larger fan for cooling. Any early A2 also didn't have towbar homologation and it was retrospectively set up in 200something for all. That's also why there's a requirement for a new type sticker (and I probably also have to do this when I get one fitted as it's an inspectable item here, I believe) under the carpet. Early ones (including mine) have an e1 1998 homologation and later ones from 2002.

As far as the conversion from two- to three seater is concerned, it's been researched extensively by the Germans for various reasons and thrown out. The main reason for this is that the anchor points are not the same and any retrofit cannot be guaranteed to have anything like the same crash performance as an original. If you replace the crossbar, you may get close. But again, that's a structural change.

- Bret
 
I didn't think it was illegal to make structural changes or to interfere with SRS set-up. The seats in a Smart are classed as a safety component but it's not actually illegal to replace them I don't think.

I know that it probably makes insurance tricky and there are probably some additional liabilities also the MOT might be a difficulty but I've seen cars with roll cages and jump seats retrofitted as well as multipoint harnesses - is that not a similar idea to what is proposed here?

Anyone here an expert on U.K. laws regarding vehicle modification?

My idea when facing this dilemma had been to strip the leather off of a bench and create covers for a split rear set but a great deal on a genuine leather set came along before I got started. I've got a set of cloth seats you can try it on if you fancy that option.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Ok let's take it one step at a time.

1) V5. Here's mine for the A2...

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2) C of C. The only time that these actually get looked at is when a car that is less than ten years old is registered with DVLA. Most people within the UK wouldn't even know what one was, let alone your insurance company!

3) Structural changes... You mean like a bob-tailed range rover? Or a shortened Landrover? Or a drastically lowered VW Transporter that is being run on woefully inadequate Beetle suspension and brakes? Or a hot rod with chassis legs that are modified to accept a more modern suspension setup? Or a modified street car that has a chassis member moved or replaced to accept a different engine/gearbox setup? These are all legal vehicles that are driving around on the streets today and sailing through mots without a glimmer of an issue.

I think that we'll agree to disagree. I'll carry on modifying and you can watch and tell me that it's not legal in Europe ☺️

MG
 
Just out of interest... I weighed the leather interior seats...

Front seat

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Rear (stupidly heavy!) bench seat...

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And just a photo of the complete rear bench seat unfolded.

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MG
 
bretti_kivi said:
The big reasons for the 1.2 not having the towbar involve the larger fan for cooling.
Click to expand...

The 1.2 has the same cooling fan as any other A2, so I'm not sure that that is the reason. It's probably more to do with braking and the thin tyres of a 1.2. It is legal to use a braked trailer with a 1.2 but not one that is un-braked.

In any case, if you are going to do anything that has questionable legality, you risk invalidating your insurance. It is also inadvisable to leave evidence of that online.

RAB
 
RAB said:
It is legal to use a braked trailer with a 1.2 but not one that is un-braked.
Click to expand...

Not correct! According to my CoC, towing in not allowed, braked or un-braked. Some online "sources" need correcting!

RAB
 
Quick search of the UK Goverment website comes up with 'Individual Vehicle Approval'. My guess, and only a guess, is that you can modify away and then, assuming you can pass the IVA, get insured and drive away.
 
RAB said:
The 1.2 has the same cooling fan as any other A2, so I'm not sure that that is the reason. It's probably more to do with braking and the thin tyres of a 1.2. It is legal to use a braked trailer with a 1.2 but not one that is un-braked.

In any case, if you are going to do anything that has questionable legality, you risk invalidating your insurance. It is also inadvisable to leave evidence of that online.

RAB
Click to expand...

I expect that it's also to do with the computer controller clutch system having to cope with a lot more weight and the wear from that.

There are other cars in a similar situation like the Audi RS6 C5. You can fit a towbar and use it (I did when I had mine) and it was fine but you're not supposed to do it. The gearbox is the weak point in that car and VAG wouldn't want any more load on it than factory.

MG
 
Audi A2 3L said:
There are other cars in a similar situation like the Audi RS6 C5. You can fit a towbar and use it (I did when I had mine) and it was fine but you're not supposed to do it. MG
Click to expand...

Apart from anything else, that would invalidate your insurance!

RAB
 
Mustang-owner said:
Illegal in what sense, Bret - can you elaborate, and in what countries would such a modification be illegal.
I think providing more detail is valuable.

Clearly any such modification needs to be undertaken with a great deal of care as the mounting points don't just mount the seats, they prevent them from being thrown around the cabin in the event of something nasty occuring.
Cheers
Jeff
Click to expand...
Norway is one example of a country where it is illegal to fit a towbar and use an A2 1.2TDI 3L to tow a trailer because registration papers clearly states that:
Maximum allowable braked trailer weight is 0kg
Maximum allowable un-braked trailer weight is 0kg
Maximum roof load is 0kg Some have 40kg limit. (just to make it worse than what's already mentioned)

A2 1.2TDI 3L rear drum brakes are only 30x180mm while all others with drums (75 hp) have 40x200mm drum brakes...

There are no plans in my head to add a towbar on mine, though I have chosen to upgrade the rear brakes to 40x200mm, handbrake is now good, so good that I pass MOT without 2-3 trails as it used to be...
Something to consider if you go for a towbar on the 1.2TDI...

Cheers
dieselfan
 
Well I finally got around to pulling the gearbox out!

I've been dragging my heals with this and not really been interested but the time has come...

Up she goes :)


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The joys of A2s not having a decent place to support the engine from! This was just while I was dropping the gearbox out. It's now supported from underneath while I rebuild the gearbox.

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Yuck! It looks like both inner CV joints are contaminated with water. They'll get a good clean and fresh grease before it goes back together.

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Out she comes :)

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Spot the missing part!! No wonder the clutch juddered.

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Whoever had this out last time didn't know what they were doing. There is no sign of the missing support tube or even parts of it.

Onto the gearbox stand for rebuild!

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5th gear coming off...

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And the puller that I bought for the previous rebuild (Lupo 3L gearbox that I'm still driving around)

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And the rest of it comes out as per the book!

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It's fairly clean inside, no black sludge :)

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And the part which caused all of the issues...

Third / Fourth selector fork.

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The question is, if it had been welded on both sides, would it have failed further along?

MG
 
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