Audio Listening, File formats

sciroccorrado

A2OC Donor
As a means of giving Johnyfartbox his post back I'll start a dedicated Audio Format/Listening thread here to discuss such matters :)

I'll start with a response to "What is APE music format"

APE files (or MonkeyAudio) are/were a bit like the BETAMAX version of FLAC (ie technically superior, but not well supported) - it was started by the guys who would eventually go on to produce J-River's Media Center as an alternative to FLAC and gives better compression/decompression performance, but unfortunately because it wasn't as open source as FLAC its take up was slow and limited, hence it's virtual disappearance nowadays and lack of recent development.

There is no point in talking about sound quality, as neither alter the actual "bits" at all, that being the point, so the output from a FLAC file and an APE file will be identical from identical sources/output.

I have a number of early noughties tracks stored in APE, mainly "needle drops" recorded from vinyl[SUP]1[/SUP], but recently I have been toying with the idea of re-working them as FLAC files for longevity. The only method I have of playing them now is on PC and I've given up trying to get a CD-Writing tool that will read them properly.

As to my listening preferences - I have several setups in different parts of the house - in my living room I have a custom built Raspberry Pi front end connected to my 2TB disc of FLAC files, outputting in 24/96 to a '90s Denon PMA350, then outputting to 2 sets of Mordaunt Short speakers (MS30s and MS20s) mounted above each other. For "portable" I have a Fiio X5 Mk 2 "Music player", onto which I put selected FLACs, then listen on Grado Labs 350 cans. In my office I have an early 90s NAD amp outputting to similarly aged Mordaunt Short speakers (MS30s). I'm quite old school in my listening habits really, having been honed in the music industry in the 80s and 90s. Similar to Timmus, I know what I like, and it's a very subjective thing anyway.

I'll prattle on about the relative merits of MP3s/FLAC files sometime when I have more time :)

[SUP]1[/SUP] This is actually one place where FLAC files come into their own when "ripping" vinyl (and to a similar extent compact cassettes - remember those?). I am also an avid vinyl collector, but hate the fact that each time you put the needle on the record you lose a tiny amount of the quality, so my answer is to record them onto digital format. I tend to record them in 24/96 format which is MUCH higher quality and bandwidth than CD and tends to keep the "warmth" you get from the vinyl (which is what audiophiles will tell you is the main advantage of vinyl). The downside of this is of course the amount of memory/hard disk space that this format takes up. A prime example of this was a Cassingle of Frankie Goes to Hollywood's Two Tribes (Approximately 20 minutes) which in MP3 format took up ~50MB, normal "CD" FLAC took up ~100MB - but in 24/96 FLAC took up about 750MB - too much even to fit onto a data CD. Using APE I managed to get this down to ~600MB - back in the early noughties you needed a fairly beefy PC to be able to decode and actually play that, but nowadays my phone will do it :cool:
 
As requested by Jeremy to past it hear instead of ruining Johnyfartboxs thread further but with a name like that the mind boggles. Lol



I managed to bag a very rare Pink Triangle Export turntable a couple years ago, could never afford one 25 years ago, and suitably kitted it out with a good arm and cartridge and am enjoying playing my Vinyl again.When you have a medium that with the right player has been likened to the closest thing to Master tape it doesn't get any better. I'm still enjoying my CD's too and currently seeking out one or two good vinyl pressings to replace some of my cd's just to hear the difference which brings onto the subject being discussed here loss less files.

Apart from the enlightened, people are getting sucked into the merry go round the Marketing people would have the population on. "Good afternoon Sir, i've got just the car to replace your aging A2........... this up to date A1" Get the picture? I can see the appeal for streaming but even the very young are waking up to owning something physical now as their parents once did. Yes i know your struggling to apprehend that but it's true. They're seeing it as cool and of course they are buying appreciating assets in Vinyl and i'm sure CD will go the same way. Cd is very much alive and Vinyl is currently enjoying a resurgence and so it goes on. Some of the very best amps in the world are using 50's technology "tubes", the German band Yellow record all there stuff using tubes...........you want to hear it,.........Audiophile quality recording at it's best.

https://youtu.be/-7CjwRaMnJU This may not appeal to all but apparently to Audiophiles it does, they've also recorded VW adverts for tv and their music has been used in many films. I have tried to locate this album on Vinyl on discogs but i think it's CD only?

:)
 
I will follow this thread with interest. I put off ripping all of my Vinyl back in the 90's storing all the records until last year. Glad I did not ditch them!

All back out now with my Thorens TD 160 linked to Quad 33/303 driving Mordant Short speakers. For ease I put all of my CD's onto a Brenon (very convenient but not perfect).
I put what I want onto SD card to play through the XLink to the standard Concert 2

Need to spend time structuring the music on SD card as the Concert only recognises 6 CDs being loaded.

Interested to learn what others do in terms of File formats.

Geoff
 
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I will follow this thread with interest. I put off ripping all of my Vinyl back in the 90's storing all the records until last year. Glad I did not ditch them!

All back out now with my Thorens TD 160 linked to Quad 33/303 driving Mordant Short speakers. For ease I put all of my CD's onto a Brenon (very convenient but not perfect).

I forgot to mention my weapon of (Vinyl) choice is a Ariston Q Deck with Ortofon Concorde Pro styli.

The Brenon is a nice, elegant compromise very well crafted and from my (admittedly limited) listening sounds excellent.

I put what I want onto SD card to play through the XLink to the standard Concert 2

Need to spend time structuring the music on SD card as the Concert only recognises 6 CDs being loaded.

This is one of the things that put me off the X-CarLink interface, I understand why they've done it, but would drive me mad.
 
I'm glad it's not just me who listens through valves (or tubes as our American cousins refer to them as). My personal listening rig is a pair of vintage Grado RS1 cans (not the i or e version) linked to a Little Dot Mk3 with uprated Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV valves (supposedly manufactured for cold war ballistic missiles!!) all linked to my 3TB NAS where my music lives in FLAC files. For main listening, I have the NAS hooked up to a Pioneer SC-LX89 class D amp running in pure direct mode and then on the end, is a pair of PMC Twenty23 speakers (backed up by an inline BKE XLS400).

I have all my cd's stored in the loft now - apart from one or two special boxes - as it makes no sense to have the clutter around. The next step is to digitise all my dvd collection because again, I can't really spare space for all the clutter and cases take up so much room to say all they have inside is a wafer thin disc.

I've now started buying 4K Blurays on Apple's iTunes store - they're cheaper than in the shops and take up no room. Yes, I've no physical product, but I do own the film unlike with Netflix or Amazon (technically with Amazon, you own the copy for as long as you subscribe with them) so as long as Apple are in business, I'll be fine. If some catastrophe occurs and I can't get access to my library, then I'm sure I'll not care, because if it's that serious, I think my mind will be elsewhere other than wanting to watch a film!!
 
Tom my friend, have the argument over hear not on fartboxs thread. :p

Surely this isn't an argument! :)

I was replying to a quote on John's thread. To have posted here would have broken all continuity and looked odd. What we really need is a moderator to merge the audio systems posts from John's thread into this one.
 
I used to have a high end system - Systemdek turntable, Audiolab amp and Arcam speakers but it just doesn't fit very well with family life so I found it was rare when i actually had time to sit, relax and listen. Solution was to put all my music on the Hidizs player as FLACs and then we are allowed to listen to music at work so that's where I listen to all my music now apart from occassionally in the car on long journeys.

Simon.
 
Surely this isn't an argument! :)

I was replying to a quote on John's thread. To have posted here would have broken all continuity and looked odd. What we really need is a moderator to merge the audio systems posts from John's thread into this one.

Of course it's not an argument, just a way to show ones passion is another way to put it. I laughed out loud over there that's why i commented here to get the debate going here Vinyl versus CD. Did you read Jeremies link post 5? Interesting i thought. I'm old school as you know but i've got a lot of catching up to do with Prince Williams generation.;)
 
...but i've got a lot of catching up to do with Prince Williams generation.;)

Haha!

I wouldn't use me as a model of youth and modernity! I've never used Spotify, have never downloaded anything from any online music service, don't store any of my music on computerised media (hard drives, etc) and worship a load of albums that were made before I was even born! :p
 
Haha!

I wouldn't use me as a model of youth and modernity! I've never used Spotify, have never downloaded anything from any online music service, don't store any of my music on computerised media (hard drives, etc) and worship a load of albums that were made before I was even born! :p

Aha, you do worship your CD albums and revel in the silence once their finished fair play to you, nothing wrong with that and indeed to be encouraged! :cool: Funny enough,....... nor have i ever downloaded anything of iTunes or whatever else is out there. :eek: I say hiding under the chair, lol. However i do love Youtube it's a fabulous invention and i have rediscovered many a 12" that i couldn't afford when i was a teenager.
 
Haha!

I wouldn't use me as a model of youth and modernity! I've never used Spotify, have never downloaded anything from any online music service, don't store any of my music on computerised media (hard drives, etc) and worship a load of albums that were made before I was even born! :p

+1 for that ;)

Though I embrace digital, but with certain caveats explained above.

Tom - why don't you do what Vorsprung did, and copy your comment from Johny's post this one for the continuity.

I would describe myself as a Musical completist, so whilst I appreciate vinyl cover as an art form (and I have a wall of album covers displayed upstairs) it's not the BIG thing for me, that's the music. Once I latch on to an artist I tend to end up buying EVERYTHING they have done/do musically, but I'm not a "stamp collector" type, so don't go as far as some making sure that I have the Latvian pressing with a speeling mistake on the fine print of the copyright, which was wrong anyway... you get the picture.

I definitely agree with Tom about wanting to listen to music in the order it was originally intended, which unfortunately in these days of streaming music appears to be a lost art now. Contrary to Tom though I don't mind "flipping" the disc, and indeed there is some albums where this is necessary to get the full impact of the disc, and how it sometimes got lost on transfer to CDs (Light side/Dark side). But, in order to negate this energetic task is one of the reasons I do convert vinyl to digital format, but again, contrary to a lot of people's views/preferences I do not run the files through filtering to reduce "click and crackle", I only remove the worst of the pops due to scratches but keep the rest intact due to my love of the warmth of the sound with all its inherent weaknesses.

(Again, all views are mine and are not intended to belittle or upset anybody, and if this is taken as such them I'm truly sorry)
 
Aha, you do worship your CD albums and revel in the silence once their finished fair play to you, nothing wrong with that and indeed to be encouraged! :cool: Funny enough,....... nor have i ever downloaded anything of iTunes or whatever else is out there. :eek: I say hiding under the chair, lol.

Contrary to others I HAVE downloaded a few iTunes tunes, but only when I needed something in a rush and really couldn't find it anywhere else ... I always try to get music in the highest possible resolution (I have the Beatles Apple USB stick for example) then down-sampling it to suit playing medium (MP3s for car etc.) but try finding a Virginia Astley album... anywhere... :) but it took me the best part of 20 years to get a copy of 1987 What the F**K is Going On by The JAMMS.
 
Contrary to others I HAVE downloaded a few iTunes tunes, but only when I needed something in a rush and really couldn't find it anywhere else ... I always try to get music in the highest possible resolution (I have the Beatles Apple USB stick for example) then down-sampling it to suit playing medium (MP3s for car etc.) but try finding a Virginia Astley album... anywhere... :) but it took me the best part of 20 years to get a copy of 1987 What the F**K is Going On by The JAMMS.

Haha The Jams,don't you mean the KLF Tom will be pleaased to know i have it on CD. :) https://youtu.be/n4onQqSMUag A brand new and fresh sound at the time,still unique now really!
 
Haha The Jams,don't you mean the KLF Tom will be pleaased to know i have it on CD. :) https://youtu.be/n4onQqSMUag A brand new and fresh sound at the time,still unique now really!

I actually mean The Justified Ancients of Mu Mu as they were known at the time - the album I got never was available on CD, only vinyl and even then 90% of the pressings were destroyed. Read the full story here (will be interesting to see if the Forum software filter screw up the link) The White Room was later, together with Doctorin' the Tardis and compilation album S**g Times.
 
I actually mean The Justified Ancients of Mu Mu as they were known at the time - the album I got never was available on CD, only vinyl and even then 90% of the pressings were destroyed. Read the full story here (will be interesting to see if the Forum software filter screw up the link) The White Room was later, together with Doctorin' the Tardis and compilation album S**g Times.

I remember the times when it was all available on vinyl, why were 90% of the pressings destroyed? I'm not making sense of that link.
 
the Octavia supports FLAC. So that's what gets used there and it means around 80% of the collection is available on a 128GB SD Card...

- Bret
 
I remember the times when it was all available on vinyl, why were 90% of the pressings destroyed? I'm not making sense of that link.

Ha ha - that's what I meant about the forum swear filter - It just ****s out the rude words... Look up on WIKI for The KLF by clicking here - third paragraph about The Justified Ancients explains a bit, but then click on the link about the album... The S**g Times Vinyl was a double album, which was much better than the edited CD version. I still have my precious copy of Whitney Joins the JAMMs which I bought as a single-sided 12" white label having heard it on Peel sessions. I got it in a tiny window of about 3 weeks before the whole poo storm exploded.
 
the Octavia supports FLAC. So that's what gets used there and it means around 80% of the collection is available on a 128GB SD Card...

- Bret

Excellent, I know more recent Audis support FLAC, all mine though only get up to MP3s - it's only in the last few months I had the MK2 RNS-E that I've been able to support more than 8GB of music.
 
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