timmus
A2OC Donor
Indeed! We've been collectively working on these choices for nearly 20 years. The A2 TDI is a dream for tinkerers.
Bluemotion MZN gearbox, an alternative...
- Thread starter Menno
- Start date
depronman
A2OC Donor
Indeed! We've been collectively working on these choices for nearly 20 years. The A2 TDI is a dream for tinkerers.
Could not agree more. Don’t think I’ve modded a car as much since the early 80’s and that was a mk2 Capri 1.6L that was nothing like a 1.6L when I finished
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dj_efk
A2OC Donor
Oh noooooo! I'm only driving flat surface, and UNDER sea-level....... Should have taken a JDD...
@dj_efk , Go ahead and yes, ask and widen the scope!
The more input on this subject, the better...... It doesn't get more clear (maybe), but you can take what you like or sounds plausible and think about it.
About cost; at the breakers here in Holland, prices for a used MZN or MNY start at €150. JDD'S are higher priced over here.
Seals and new gearbox oil and sleeve for clutch bearing are about €25—€30 on the internet.
I strongly recommend to replace them before you install the box.
Also, the clutch, if you don't have a history present on this part, make sure you have a new one ready to fit.
I had a fairly new one in my car (receipt of former owner), but I still bought a new set to keep the work flow going if it was required.
All DIY by the way.
@Menno - Just found this in case any of your fellow Dutchmen are interested: Cheap low mileage JDD gearbox in the Netherlands
Menno
A2OC Donor
Beware if you want this particular gearbox. It's maybe cheap, and there's a reason..... Look at the cover, you can see the gears!
If it's open like that, someting happened (accident/crashed)!
Also, it seems that it was taken out of the car with a plasma cutter (just above the orange line)......
Good find, but I wouldn't recommend this one.
Last edited:
dj_efk
A2OC Donor
@Menno and @depronman - appreciate there’s probably not been as much cause to drive your cars recently as there would have normally been - but as it’s such an interesting mod you've both done and for the benefit of the rest of us wanting to compare your respective choices - any further thoughts on the MZN and JDD driving experiences?
depronman
A2OC Donor
I’ve only done about 100 miles so far on the jdd box but there is a mix of town extra urban and motorway driving
So far I’m delighted
Performance is good if not better than before due to the longer gearing meaning fewer gear changes in the 0 to 40 mph range
Economy according to mini DIS is also looking to be better than with the origin box with long 5th gear
I will report back when it’s done a few hundred miles
Paul
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
So far I’m delighted
Performance is good if not better than before due to the longer gearing meaning fewer gear changes in the 0 to 40 mph range
Economy according to mini DIS is also looking to be better than with the origin box with long 5th gear
I will report back when it’s done a few hundred miles
Paul
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Menno
A2OC Donor
Didn't do much driving indeed, except for a 200km round trip, most of it motorway.
The low revs are helping to get more distance on a tank full, but no exact measurements yet (didn't add fuel yet since the box swap).
Again, fuel saving wasn't my original goal although it's a nice bonus!
Lower revs was my goal, and on that part the MZN is doing its job.
It makes the A2 AMF an even more mature car which it allready is.
Cruising at 100-130 km/h is done in great comfort, wind and road noise is more audible instead of engine rumble.
The audio system doesn't need cranking up at these speeds.
Downsides too.......... In 50/80km/h speed restricted area's I've got to keep an eye on the speedo.
It's so quiet and easy going that going faster then allowed is easily done.
The low revs are helping to get more distance on a tank full, but no exact measurements yet (didn't add fuel yet since the box swap).
Again, fuel saving wasn't my original goal although it's a nice bonus!
Lower revs was my goal, and on that part the MZN is doing its job.
It makes the A2 AMF an even more mature car which it allready is.
Cruising at 100-130 km/h is done in great comfort, wind and road noise is more audible instead of engine rumble.
The audio system doesn't need cranking up at these speeds.
Downsides too.......... In 50/80km/h speed restricted area's I've got to keep an eye on the speedo.
It's so quiet and easy going that going faster then allowed is easily done
.
timmus
A2OC Donor
My only criticism is that there's not enough of your Dutch accent.
D
Deleted member 14916
Guest
On the 30th of May this Mod was carried out on my 2003 TDI 75. It took me working alone two days. Results??? Great the gearbox works perfectly.
Replace the rear seal behind the flywheel
If you are going carry out all this work I would recommend removing the flywheel to gain access to the seal.
Note
Draw a line from the centre of the mounting onto the flywheel to help when you refit it.
Look for the white line in the 10 o'clock position
Bought the cheapest part I could find on eBay the picture below is the old seal that had a manufactures mark of year 2005.
The seal is Number 24 in this diagram
Flywheel removed
The plastic insert clips to the drive end on the engine, the seal then slid neatly on and the eight bolts done up (marked with white pen).
Not recommended however this worked well for me. A chainsaw combi-tool (scrench) to lock the wheel.
Spin the tool around 180 degrees to slackening or tighten the flywheel bolts. ?
The risk here is mounting point on the back of the gearbox breaks or a tooth shears off the flywheel.
If you look at the teeth on the flywheel you can see there are 2 that look different from the rest, definitely do not use these sender teeth for this operation.
Gearbox mounting
I used an angle grinder to remove this part of the gearbox.
Keep putting the mount on the gearbox to check if the front and rear mounting bolts can be fitted.
The picture below is only half way through material removal and has some way to go before the gearbox mount can be fitted.
It is worth noting that the middle mounting hole requires a nut and bolt as only the front and rear are mountings are threaded.
Note
The gap you can see below is not the area that requires packing with washers. This is the rear mounting and it must be flush to the gearbox.
x4 Washers must be fitted to each of the two front mounts, otherwise the body to gearbox fixing screws are not aligned.
I reused the lower pendulum mount with no modification. Two of the gearbox mounting points line up. To get them to align the engine was tilted slightly back to the bulkhead using a jack.
Gear Box Oil
Remove all gear oil before you start removing drive cups.
For peace of mind remove the upper (filler bung) and lower (drain bung) when the box is out of the car.
An old screwdriver inserted through one of the six outer holes hold the cup while the centre allen bolt was undone. I used a wood clamp to compress the sprung drive cups when fitting the EWQ parts to the MAL box.
Removal or install of the gearbox is aided if you do not fit the Off Side/drivers cup shown in this picture.
Total cost for the project was 298
LUK clutch kit - 111
End Seal - 17
Gearbox - 150
2lts Gear oil - 20
Thank you to Menno for providing the springboard for this fantastic project.
Replace the rear seal behind the flywheel
If you are going carry out all this work I would recommend removing the flywheel to gain access to the seal.
Note
Draw a line from the centre of the mounting onto the flywheel to help when you refit it.
Look for the white line in the 10 o'clock position
Bought the cheapest part I could find on eBay the picture below is the old seal that had a manufactures mark of year 2005.
The seal is Number 24 in this diagram
Flywheel removed
The plastic insert clips to the drive end on the engine, the seal then slid neatly on and the eight bolts done up (marked with white pen).
Not recommended however this worked well for me. A chainsaw combi-tool (scrench) to lock the wheel.
Spin the tool around 180 degrees to slackening or tighten the flywheel bolts. ?
The risk here is mounting point on the back of the gearbox breaks or a tooth shears off the flywheel.
If you look at the teeth on the flywheel you can see there are 2 that look different from the rest, definitely do not use these sender teeth for this operation.
Gearbox mounting
I used an angle grinder to remove this part of the gearbox.
Keep putting the mount on the gearbox to check if the front and rear mounting bolts can be fitted.
The picture below is only half way through material removal and has some way to go before the gearbox mount can be fitted.
It is worth noting that the middle mounting hole requires a nut and bolt as only the front and rear are mountings are threaded.
Note
The gap you can see below is not the area that requires packing with washers. This is the rear mounting and it must be flush to the gearbox.
x4 Washers must be fitted to each of the two front mounts, otherwise the body to gearbox fixing screws are not aligned.
I reused the lower pendulum mount with no modification. Two of the gearbox mounting points line up. To get them to align the engine was tilted slightly back to the bulkhead using a jack.
Clutch slave cylinder Fits OK
Gear cable linkage mount Fits OK
Selector sprung ends and EWQ selector mounts Fit OK
Drive shaft cups Fit OK
Gear Box Oil
Remove all gear oil before you start removing drive cups.
For peace of mind remove the upper (filler bung) and lower (drain bung) when the box is out of the car.
An old screwdriver inserted through one of the six outer holes hold the cup while the centre allen bolt was undone. I used a wood clamp to compress the sprung drive cups when fitting the EWQ parts to the MAL box.
Removal or install of the gearbox is aided if you do not fit the Off Side/drivers cup shown in this picture.
Total cost for the project was 298
LUK clutch kit - 111
End Seal - 17
Gearbox - 150
2lts Gear oil - 20
Thank you to Menno for providing the springboard for this fantastic project.
Last edited by a moderator:
Menno
A2OC Donor
The same, see list in post #30 in this topic.
depronman
A2OC Donor
I’ve just had a motorway run in my A2 first one since the jdd box was fitted
The revs at a true 70mph are a fraction over 2000 say 2050 and the cabin is void of engine noise
Economy seemed a little better at 75 than 70 all checked on a level ground using satnav for speed and cc to maintain speed
At 75 mpg I was seeing 68 mpg at 70mph I was seeing 66mpg
at 80mph I was seeing’s 62mpg
Acceleration is good in 5th from 65 mph
Averaged 58 mpg over 212 miles but the first 100 miles were all short journeys of no more than3miles. So very happy with that
Cheers. Paul
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The revs at a true 70mph are a fraction over 2000 say 2050 and the cabin is void of engine noise
Economy seemed a little better at 75 than 70 all checked on a level ground using satnav for speed and cc to maintain speed
At 75 mpg I was seeing 68 mpg at 70mph I was seeing 66mpg
at 80mph I was seeing’s 62mpg
Acceleration is good in 5th from 65 mph
Averaged 58 mpg over 212 miles but the first 100 miles were all short journeys of no more than3miles. So very happy with that
Cheers. Paul
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Menno
A2OC Donor
On the 30th of May this Mod was carried out on my TDI. It took me two days. Results??? Great the gearbox works perfectly.
Replace the rear seal behind the flywheel.
If you are going carry out all this work I would recommend removing the flywheel to gain access to the seal.
Note
Draw a line from the centre of the mounting onto the flywheel to help when you refit it.
Look for the white line in the 10 o'clock position
View attachment 65395
Bought the cheapest part I could find on eBay the picture below is the old seal that had a manufactures mark of year 2005.
View attachment 65391
The seal is Number 24 in the diagram.
View attachment 65393
Flywheel removed
View attachment 65392
The plastic insert clips to the drive end on the engine, the seal then slid neatly on and the eight bolts done up (marked with white pen).
View attachment 65394
Not recommended however this worked well for me. A chainsaw combi-tool (scrench) to lock the wheel.
Spin the tool around 180 degrees to slackening or tighten the flywheel bolts. ?
The risk here is mounting point on the back of the gearbox breaks or a tooth shears off the flywheel.
If you look at the teeth on the flywheel you can see there are 2 that look different from the rest, definitely do not use these sender teeth for this operation.
Gearbox mounting
I used an angle grinder to remove this part of the gearbox.
Keep putting the mount on the gearbox to check if the front and rear mounting bolts can be fitted.
The picture below is only half way through material removal and has some way to go before the gearbox mount can be fitted.
It is worth noting that the middle mounting hole requires a nut and bolt only the front and rear are threaded.
View attachment 65396
Note
This is not the area that requires packing with washers
View attachment 65397
x4 Washers must be fitted to each of the two front mounts, otherwise the body to gearbox fixing screws are not aligned.
View attachment 65398
I reused the lower pendulum mount with no modification. Two of the gearbox mounting points line up. To get them to align the engine was tilted slightly back to the bulkhead using a jack.
Clutch slave cylinder Fits OK
Gear cable linkage mount Fits OK
Selector sprung ends and EWQ selector mounts Fit OK
Drive shaft cups Fit OK
Gear Box Oil
Remove all gear oil before you start removing drive cups.
For peace of mind remove the upper (filler bung) and lower (drain bung) when the box is out of the car.
An old screwdriver inserted through one of the six outer holes hold the cup while the centre allen bolt was undone. I used a clamp compress the spring to refit the EWQ cups to the MAL box.
Removal or install of the gearbox is aided if you do not fit the Off Side/drivers cup shown in this picture.
View attachment 65402
Total cost for the project was 298
LUK clutch kit - 111
End Seal - 17
Gearbox - 150
2lts Gear oil - 20
Thank you to Menno for providing the springboard for this fantastic project.
What a fantastic job you did @beady73 including the pictures and so on!
Keep posted how you experience the drive with the MAL box.
Cheers, Menno.
Last edited:
D
Deleted member 14916
Guest
Update on the gear linkages
It took me a few attempts to find the right cable ends but these are the ones for my MAL set up
gear link
The selector tower link arm from the MAL gearbox would not fit my engine bay, fouled on the starter motor.
The question I wanted answered was, would the MAL linkages perform better than the EWQ set that I had transplanted onto the MAL box?
MAL gear link looks like before disc cutting
Adjusted to fit
This is the other linkage, uses the exact connector as above
Link
This set up feels slightly different to the EWQ selectors.
Possible shorter throw, feels notchy and the slack has been removed from my gearstick.
Happy with this upgraded set up.
All linkages were all included with the MAL gearbox, this upgrade, just 20 quid for the connecting rod ends.
It took me a few attempts to find the right cable ends but these are the ones for my MAL set up
- Manufactured by: HANS PRIES TOPRAN GERMANY
- Manufacturer ref. number: 116 351 755
- Vehicle Equipment: for vehicles with shift cable
- Holder Ø: 10mm
gear link
The selector tower link arm from the MAL gearbox would not fit my engine bay, fouled on the starter motor.
The question I wanted answered was, would the MAL linkages perform better than the EWQ set that I had transplanted onto the MAL box?
MAL gear link looks like before disc cutting
Adjusted to fit
This is the other linkage, uses the exact connector as above
Link
This set up feels slightly different to the EWQ selectors.
Possible shorter throw, feels notchy and the slack has been removed from my gearstick.
Happy with this upgraded set up.
All linkages were all included with the MAL gearbox, this upgrade, just 20 quid for the connecting rod ends.
D
Deleted member 14916
Guest
MAL gearbox performance update
Remapped Engine = ☑
TYRE SIZE 205 55 15 large circumference with budget tyres that came with the second hand alloy wheels
I get roughly 450 miles on 37 litres equal to 55MPG or 5.1L
The EWQ box gave the same MPG figures
2000 RPM in 5th giving 62mph there about
The car now reminds me of how I used to drive the Peugeot 205 turbo diesel 1769CC
Third gear for thirty zones at 1800 revs
Fourth gear in thirty zones is not a good idea as you tend to go over thirty
Hope this helps others out there
Remapped Engine = ☑
TYRE SIZE 205 55 15 large circumference with budget tyres that came with the second hand alloy wheels
I get roughly 450 miles on 37 litres equal to 55MPG or 5.1L
The EWQ box gave the same MPG figures
2000 RPM in 5th giving 62mph there about
The car now reminds me of how I used to drive the Peugeot 205 turbo diesel 1769CC
Third gear for thirty zones at 1800 revs
Fourth gear in thirty zones is not a good idea as you tend to go over thirty
Hope this helps others out there
Last edited by a moderator:
Menno
A2OC Donor
My only criticism is that there's not enough of your Dutch accent.
Well, here we go again; Enjoy! ?
vonwiel
Member
Thank you Andy for your old gearbox, our sycros have gone on 2nd, 3rd and 4th plus flywheel no good. CheersOn the 30th of May this Mod was carried out on my 2003 TDI 75. It took me working alone two days. Results??? Great the gearbox works perfectly.
Replace the rear seal behind the flywheel
If you are going carry out all this work I would recommend removing the flywheel to gain access to the seal.
Note
Draw a line from the centre of the mounting onto the flywheel to help when you refit it.
Look for the white line in the 10 o'clock position
View attachment 65395
Bought the cheapest part I could find on eBay the picture below is the old seal that had a manufactures mark of year 2005.
View attachment 65391
The seal is Number 24 in this diagram
View attachment 65393
Flywheel removed
View attachment 65392
The plastic insert clips to the drive end on the engine, the seal then slid neatly on and the eight bolts done up (marked with white pen).
View attachment 65394
Not recommended however this worked well for me. A chainsaw combi-tool (scrench) to lock the wheel.
Spin the tool around 180 degrees to slackening or tighten the flywheel bolts. ?
The risk here is mounting point on the back of the gearbox breaks or a tooth shears off the flywheel.
If you look at the teeth on the flywheel you can see there are 2 that look different from the rest, definitely do not use these sender teeth for this operation.
Gearbox mounting
I used an angle grinder to remove this part of the gearbox.
Keep putting the mount on the gearbox to check if the front and rear mounting bolts can be fitted.
The picture below is only half way through material removal and has some way to go before the gearbox mount can be fitted.
It is worth noting that the middle mounting hole requires a nut and bolt as only the front and rear are mountings are threaded.
View attachment 65396
Note
The gap you can see below is not the area that requires packing with washers. This is the rear mounting and it must be flush to the gearbox.
View attachment 65397
x4 Washers must be fitted to each of the two front mounts, otherwise the body to gearbox fixing screws are not aligned.
View attachment 65398
I reused the lower pendulum mount with no modification. Two of the gearbox mounting points line up. To get them to align the engine was tilted slightly back to the bulkhead using a jack.
Clutch slave cylinder Fits OKGear cable linkage mount Fits OKSelector sprung ends and EWQ selector mounts Fit OKDrive shaft cups Fit OK
Gear Box Oil
Remove all gear oil before you start removing drive cups.
For peace of mind remove the upper (filler bung) and lower (drain bung) when the box is out of the car.
An old screwdriver inserted through one of the six outer holes hold the cup while the centre allen bolt was undone. I used a wood clamp to compress the sprung drive cups when fitting the EWQ parts to the MAL box.
Removal or install of the gearbox is aided if you do not fit the Off Side/drivers cup shown in this picture.
View attachment 65402
Total cost for the project was 298
LUK clutch kit - 111
End Seal - 17
Gearbox - 150
2lts Gear oil - 20
Thank you to Menno for providing the springboard for this fantastic project.