BMW i3 range extender?

S

sunsurfer

Member
What do you think of the BMW i3 range extender version as an everyday car? My wife wants an easier car to drive than the A2 (?!) and I can get a used i3 REX for about £15k. Some of you have direct experience of the i3.
  • Is it a BMW? Does it handle and perform similarly to its stable mates?
  • Is the electric range adequate - we live about 30 miles outside of Edinburgh
  • Does the range extender engine fully ensure you have adequate range for say touring in remote Scotland or will I be left desperate for electric charge or a petrol station
  • Is it quality? £15k is about 5 times more than a decent A2
  • Is it cheap to run?
  • We have solar panels on the roof - will this make charging even cheaper?
  • Any problems or concerns I should consider?
Cheers and thanks
 
Solution
oowee
Your solar pv is mostly wasted now I would guess unless you have an electric boiler so charging a car battery is a good idea. Effectively free fuel, although the energy cost is much less than diesel. The small engine is very noisy when in use but gives arange of about 80 miles and then you can top it up from a can. You will want to avoid using it when the electric motor is so much quieter. Great thing with the rex is it takes away all of the range anxiety and you can use the elctric to it's fullest.
You should also consider battery degredation.
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Interestingly battery degradation does not seem to be a significant issue. From comments on the various forums even the earliest cars (which are now coming up 7 years old) don't seem to suffer from much loss of range compared to when new. I think a couple of years ago BMW increased the mileage on the 8 year battery warranty so they don't see it as much of an issue either.

The bigger problems I would say if you are contemplating long term ownership are;

1. If you are going to want the peace of mind that comes with the battery warranty you are pretty much forced into a continuing relationship with the BMW dealer network until the car is 8 years old. Depending what you think of BMW dealers / pricing that may or may not be an issue.

2. Linked to the above if you want to protect yourself against potential large repair bills - (possibly more relevant with a REX) - you will probably have to seriously consider extending the warranty with BMW - (for which I believe they want about £1,000pa)

3. It is unclear to what extent the electric vehicle 'aftermarket' (parts / repairs) will develop over coming years and to what extent that will help i3 owners. I think there are about 15k i3's in the UK and something over 200k worldwide. As with the A2, it is not a large production volume and therefore not of much interest to vehicle component suppliers. It will always be 'easy' to source aftermarket items for suspension / brakes etc as there is some commonality with other BMW models. But the specialist i3 stuff is likely to remain dealer only (captive market). Even tyre choice is pretty much non-existent, with pricing reflecting that.

Not making these comments to contradict my enthusiasm for the car. I, like you, am contemplating longer term ownership. But I think, in weighing everything up, you have to be realistic that just as the purchase price (new and s/h) is not cheap - the same goes for the annual running costs.
 
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mjsbrabus said:
Electric cars now are migrating towards the same anonymous bloated SUV's that the market has apparently demanded for the past few years. Step forward the VW ID4!
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Size is driven by the requirement for longer range. You won't find an EV of the size of an A2/i3 with a 250 mile range. The ID4 is just a styling exercise; it uses the same platform as the ID3 - they have the same wheelbase.

RAB
 
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Agreed..

And the requirement to spread cost over the biggest volume by building both ICE and Electric on common platforms means that development will initially be concentrated on the top selling segment in USA/Europe/China - SUV's.

The i3 was/is an exception to this with it's bespoke platform and materials. Arguably a development blind alley - just like the A2.
 
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VW should get significant volume out of this platform with their in house badge engineering and Ford partnership.

On the point that platforms have to be larger to achieve ‘acceptable’ range it will be interesting to see what BMW can squeeze out of a final battery upgrade on the i3 - assuming they don’t shelve the idea post-Covid.
 
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sunsurfer said:
Upgrading from 60Ah to 94Ah, was that a difficult and expensive job? Also how did that impact on the range?
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Very good 50% boost in winter range. It is exactly the same size pack and a few kg heavier. Yes it is not as easy as it should be. In Norway and Germany offered as an official upgrade option - ISTA-A/P has upgrade path and TIS the full guidance - requires new bolts and lid if inspected. Biggest problem is sheer weight and size (250kg+) and need to remove and restore YF1234 fluid. BMW UK more interested in selling you a new lease not long term sustainability or Right 2 Repair.
 
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mjsbrabus said:
Do your research. I run a 120ah i3 and really would not have considered a REX or shorter range BEV. Early cars are best avoided. Cars from 2016 are generally thought to be better. The facelift cars are better still but you won't get one for £15k.
The REX seems to give problems if it does not get regular use.
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Early BEVs are fine. In fact first year cars had more CFRP content than later version that used cheaper material in the interior as well. Of course newer have less rattles and facelift better lights across the range instead of optional. If environment is concern then it takes 8,000kg of GHG to produce a new Model 3, so we should be looking to keep cars going as long as possible with retrofit upgrades etc.
 
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mjsbrabus said:
The major flaw in your plan is that once you have the opportunity to drive an i3 you won't want to drive the A2 anymore.
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Still drive both! In fact the A2 1.2 TDI is quieter above 40 mph and more stable in corners (regen doesn't like significant changes of direction or bumps).
 
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Don’t worry - the i3 is fun, but so is the A2 - we swap between them happily. Just have to remember that one has regen braking and the other needs use of clutch when stopping!

Neither is great for the environment - cycling / walking etc is the only really clean thing to do.

Chris
 
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mjsbrabus said:
Interestingly battery degradation does not seem to be a significant issue. From comments on the various forums even the earliest cars (which are now coming up 7 years old) don't seem to suffer from much loss of range compared to when new. I think a couple of years ago BMW increased the mileage on the 8 year battery warranty so they don't see it as much of an issue either.

The bigger problems I would say if you are contemplating long term ownership are;

1. If you are going to want the peace of mind that comes with the battery warranty you are pretty much forced into a continuing relationship with the BMW dealer network until the car is 8 years old. Depending what you think of BMW dealers / pricing that may or may not be an issue.

2. Linked to the above if you want to protect yourself against potential large repair bills - (possibly more relevant with a REX) - you will probably have to seriously consider extending the warranty with BMW - (for which I believe they want about £1,000pa)

3. It is unclear to what extent the electric vehicle 'aftermarket' (parts / repairs) will develop over coming years and to what extent that will help i3 owners. I think there are about 15k i3's in the UK and something over 200k worldwide. As with the A2, it is not a large production volume and therefore not of much interest to vehicle component suppliers. It will always be 'easy' to source aftermarket items for suspension / brakes etc as there is some commonality with other BMW models. But the specialist i3 stuff is likely to remain dealer only (captive market). Even tyre choice is pretty much non-existent, with pricing reflecting that.

Not making these comments to contradict my enthusiasm for the car. I, like you, am contemplating longer term ownership. But I think, in weighing everything up, you have to be realistic that just as the purchase price (new and s/h) is not cheap - the same goes for the annual running costs.
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Degradation is real and much more noticeable in winter when all electrics have to be one like wipers, heating, de-misting, lights etc. Higher deg with more rapid charging cycles. BMW is pretty good (active cooling) but remember capacity gets released with each service so the 20% buffer goes by 8 years. Warranty is not total capacity just enough cells to take it above minimum 70-80%. As packs get larger (Tesla 750kg0 it's less noticeable to loose a few miles per year cf a car than has a winter range of 80 miles.
 
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ecoangel said:
Degradation is real and much more noticeable in winter when all electrics have to be one like wipers, heating, de-misting, lights etc. Higher deg with more rapid charging cycles. BMW is pretty good (active cooling) but remember capacity gets released with each service so the 20% buffer goes by 8 years. Warranty is not total capacity just enough cells to take it above minimum 70-80%. As packs get larger (Tesla 750kg0 it's less noticeable to loose a few miles per year cf a car than has a winter range of 80 miles.
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I had read that in an EV, lights, heating, wipers, et cetera were run off the 12V battery. Is this not the case?
 
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ecoangel said:
Degradation is real and much more noticeable in winter when all electrics have to be one like wipers, heating, de-misting, lights etc.
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That's not actual degradation Lukas. It's simply due to lower ambient temperatures. Batteries work less efficiently at lower temperatures and energy is required for heating. These are taken into account when calculating range. It's no different to a fossil car!

RAB
 
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RAB said:
Where do you think the power comes from to charge the 12v battery? Hopefully not the alternator!

RAB
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I was looking for an explanation rather than sarcasm
Is there some kind of converter which feeds the 12V battery from the “big” battery?
If you were starting from scratch, which I presume Tesla did, why would you bother with the 12V battery; just because the parts bin contains lots of ancillaries?
 
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andrewparkeruk said:
I was looking for an explanation rather than sarcasm
Is there some kind of converter which feeds the 12V battery from the “big” battery?
If you were starting from scratch, which I presume Tesla did, why would you bother with the 12V battery; just because the parts bin contains lots of ancillaries?
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All EV'S have a 12V chassis battery its what wakes up the EV system
 
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I had a 60 Ah i3 in the states. Wonderful car all around, full stop. A pleasure to drive, practical, and made a great commuter for my 40 mile round trip each day. I got the 'Lodge' interior and it was beautifully trimmed. Handled like a go-kart, light and confident in a way that my A2 recalls but doesn't quite match. Loved the suicide doors and the upright seating. Fit many a trip to Costco, etc. without a complaint. Friends, kids, family all loved going for rides. Faster off the line than the exotic petrol cars I'd often see in Scottsdale AZ USA, up to 30 mph or so :)

I didn't get the REx because it would have disqualified me from driving by myself in the carpool lane, a big selling point there but not so much here. That did keep me from using the car more frequently as my primary rather than second car. If you're not on longer commutes and if you plan road trips a little carefully you should have no problems getting by. Remote drives would be a little more concerning--a friend had the REx and complained that relying on it with a discharged battery was misery in traffic.

I say go for it! The comments about not wanting to get back into your A2 might be warranted, although I see them both as future classics and the best of what happens when the Germans show off their skills.
 
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mjsbrabus said:
Sunsurfer - did you ever buy an i3?
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Not yet. Finances are tighter post Covid but I fancy an i3 as a possible long term classic. The issue is range and if Renault can get 240 miles of range out of the Zoe why are BMW struggling?
The same of course applies to Honda - Honda e and Mini with approximately 150 miles.
Interim solution is a Yaris Hybrid (same tech as Prius) - which I'm not so keen on. Feels the worst compromise of electric and ICE technology.
 
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sunsurfer said:
Not yet. Finances are tighter post Covid but I fancy an i3 as a possible long term classic. The issue is range and if Renault can get 240 miles of range out of the Zoe why are BMW struggling?
The same of course applies to Honda - Honda e and Mini with approximately 150 miles.
Interim solution is a Yaris Hybrid (same tech as Prius) - which I'm not so keen on. Feels the worst compromise of electric and ICE technology.
Click to expand...
The thing I appreciated about the i3 at the time was that it was the most efficient BEV in terms of its “eMPG”—it could go more miles than anything else with the same capacity. CFRP chassis was a big help in that as it kept down weight. The upright seating and packaging meant more interior room than a contemporary 3-series whilst being much shorter on the outside. The downside is that the skateboard battery design and short wheelbase limits the amount of battery you can stuff into the chassis, hence the smaller range than some bigger BEVs.

It’ll be interesting to see what happens down the road with battery tech to allow an i3 to go further on a cost-effective basis. One company fit 100 kWh capacity in with some unique battery construction: https://www.autoblog.com/2018/09/06/bmw-i3-100kwh-lion-smart-battery/
 
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