Cam belt out of timing

BJohan

New Member
Hello guys!
This is my first thread in this forum. I am from Sweden so forgive me if my english is not perfect. I have an Audi A2 2001 with petrol 1.4 engine. I bought it very cheaply because it had a lot of faults. I was hoping I could fix it for my daughter who recently took her drivers license. I have spent a lot of time fixing everything and trying to find out whats is wrong with the engine. It is running badly (surging) on low throttle at constant speed. I also hesitates when you start from a traffic light. At high revs and speed and during accelleration it runs fine. There were two error codes intermittently for the oxygene sensor after the cat (now replaced) and 17961 (Barometric / Manifold Pressure Signals: Implausible Correlation). I have replaced a lot of sensors, ignition coil, spark plugs and cleaned the throttle body. Replaced EGR and even tried swapping to another throttle body and gas pedal sensor. I have cleaned the crank house ventilation and replaced the rubber hose. Replaced canister valve, intake manifold pressure sensor, cam speed sensor, crankshaft speed sensor, knocking sensor, new intake gaskets and injector gaskets because I thought it was some vacuum leak. I have also calibrated the throttle body with VCDS. Still it runs like crap.

A few days ago I checked the cam belt timing, and it was out of timing! Maybe this is the main cause? It seems like it has slipped a tooth. I knew I had to replace the cam belt soon, but my strategy was to get the motor running well first. The belt has never been replaced during 250 000 km (155 000 miles). Now I am afraid that the slipped cam belt may have caused damage to valves or pistons. I did a compression check and it was perfect. The engine is ticking rather heavily but I thought that was due to a bad hydraulic lifter.

Now to my question; Do I just replace the cam belt and set the timing right, or do I have to take the head off and check the status of the valves and pistons? Can the motor survive slipping a tooth on the cambelt without damage?
 

dj_efk

A2OC Donor
If the compression is perfect then I doubt there's anything mechanically fundamental that's causing the problems.

I'd be inclined to do a full service including cambelt (set correctly) and start again from there.
 

Howey

Member
Defo do the timing belt, doubt any damage has been done, my 1.9 tdi pd galaxy was about 3 teeth out to my astonishment but no damage was done! the barometric sensor is in the ecu thats what the black round plastic thingy is
 

Jellybean

Admin Team
Another vote to swap the cambelt and re-time it correctly. May be worth fitting a new water pump whilst you have things apart. I would also fit a new temperature sensor whilst coolant is drained.
As has been said if compression figures are good and even then leave the cylinder head alone.
Good luck, and welcome.

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depronman

A2OC Donor
As already stated by others the bales will be fine so no need to remove the head
I would however hand the water pump belts and the rollers and tensioners as they are well overdue as is the belt and they have a hard life
If you want to get it running right before investing more money into it then retime the original belts
I’ve had very similar issues with the AUA engine. Double check the coil leads as I chased a problem for weeks that was a failing plug lead was racing inside the cylinder head from the faulty plug lead. I heard it ticking which was the tell tail sign
Also the egr must be adapted to the engine else it will tick over like a bag of rusty spanners
I have also had one which was out of timing and nothing worked until the cam timing was corrected
The ticking will be a gummed up lifter. This may sort itself if you get all running well with some good thin synthetic oil and a good long run to get heat into it and the detergent in the oil. If not you need to remove the cam carrier not the head to gain access to the lifters
I have had success freeing them off with hot tricko and squeezing them in a vice to get them moving. They are fairly expensive and there are 16 of the things

Paul


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BJohan

New Member
As already stated by others the bales will be fine so no need to remove the head
I would however hand the water pump belts and the rollers and tensioners as they are well overdue as is the belt and they have a hard life
If you want to get it running right before investing more money into it then retime the original belts
I’ve had very similar issues with the AUA engine. Double check the coil leads as I chased a problem for weeks that was a failing plug lead was racing inside the cylinder head from the faulty plug lead. I heard it ticking which was the tell tail sign
Also the egr must be adapted to the engine else it will tick over like a bag of rusty spanners
I have also had one which was out of timing and nothing worked until the cam timing was corrected
The ticking will be a gummed up lifter. This may sort itself if you get all running well with some good thin synthetic oil and a good long run to get heat into it and the detergent in the oil. If not you need to remove the cam carrier not the head to gain access to the lifters
I have had success freeing them off with hot tricko and squeezing them in a vice to get them moving. They are fairly expensive and there are 16 of the things

Paul


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thanks for all tips. I did actually adapt the EGR.
 

depronman

A2OC Donor
You are following in my foot steps from about 12 months ago
The timing of the cams was the bit that sorted it for me

Paul


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spike

Well-Known Member
Is it the 1.4 petrol engine which also has a short belt between the camshafts. Seem to recall one engine model where this is often overlooked, (is it not included in the normal cambelt kit) and can fail.

Cheers Spike
 

Weetank2

Member
A full belt and water pump change is a good precaution,
Set of air oil +fuel filters may also help if not already done
Surging / hunting at low revs is often related to unmetered air , dirty or faulty MAF,
 

Rusty911

A2OC Donor
What brand should I go for if I buy a complete set with cambelts and waterpump?
There are plenty of good brands: INA, Gates, Dayco, Contitech (as above), SKF (who use big brand belts within their kits). I've used all and never a hint of issues with any. I'd certainly avoid anything from eBay, esp very small sellers though as a) they may be unbranded or b) even fake (although I've not heard of this, highly likely though given fake 'Bosch' wiper blades are apparently rife) and c) you'll be very unlikely to be able to take action against them in the event of a failure.

I'd rather be talking to Euros / Halfords / MCP etc than a bloke in 'first floor flat, 238, the high street, bloggsbottom.
 
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BJohan

New Member
A full belt and water pump change is a good precaution,
Set of air oil +fuel filters may also help if not already done
Surging / hunting at low revs is often related to unmetered air , dirty or faulty MAF,
On my engine there is no MAF sensor but a MAP sensor and I have replaced this. I have looked for vakuum leaks and replaced the rubber hose to the crankhouse ventilation. Air and oil filter are replaced. Fuel filter is not yet replaced. The car runs well at high speed so I guess it is no lack of fuel. A dirty fuel filter would affect fuel flow, don't you think?
 

Weetank2

Member
Seems you have covered a lot of usual culprits
Have you tried wd40 or equivalent over the hoses and listen for change in engine speed, any loss of brake assist from the servo ?
 

Joga

A2OC Donor
Hello Johan, welcome. It seems we are a few Swedes in this grand forum. What are your (rather your cars :)) symptoms in detail? Is it hesitation or just uneven torque delivery or?
 

BJohan

New Member
The car is like jerking at light throttle. It is impossible to run at constant speed. It starts to jerk and the only way to make it stop is to accelerate or take the foot from the throttle. If you don't do this it's jerking like crazy and sometimes the instrument panel lights starts to flash ABS, EPC and beeping a warning sound. Sometimes it goes into limp mode so you cannot rev more than 1200 rpm.
IMG_9129.PNG
 
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The car is like jerking at light throttle. It is impossible to run at constant speed. It starts to jerk and the only way to make it stop is to accelerate or take the foot from the throttle. If you don't do this it's jerking like crazy and sometimes the instrument panel lights starts to flash ABS, EPC and beeping a warning sound. Sometimes it goes into limp mode so you cannot rev more than 1200 rpm.
View attachment 64665
My 1.4 petrol had all the above and a throttle body clean and VCDS adaption cleared them. Not now seen for a 1000 miles or so. Good luck with the diagnosis.
 
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