Cambelt+Waterpump on TDI 90 ATL

U

Un4tural

Member
Hello All,

My A2 surprised me today by plomping most of coolant out the waterpump/cambelt area so i assume that is her way of telling me waterpump needs doing.

It had cambelt done ~22k miles ago but seeing other jobs that were done by the garage previous owner took the car to i would not be surprised if cambelt was done but water pump was left as quite a few kits seem to leave the water pump out...

Just wanted a quick sanity check i have the right bits and guess that's my plans for car work sorted for next time i have time to spare :D


+


ERC also list this https://www.eurocarparts.com/p/circoli-water-pump-201440981 which looks same as the above in picture just turned a bit?

is there anything else i should renew while there? Accessory belt and stuff there look fine.

+anti freeze obviously...

Preferably ECP as that is nearby and easy to go pick the bits up.

Edit: I'll probably grab a quote from some garages too see if it isn't too bad...

https://www.a2oc.net/community/index.php?threads/cambelt-change.4538/&t=4538&highlight=cambelt - good help.
 
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if you didn't know already please make sure you use the sale60 coupon code as it will give you a further £40 + off.
 
MKay so bit of update with this fun stuff....

Seems i need the hydraulic damped tensioning thing rather than presumably friction as most as suggested on ECP and other parts shops...

Kits online show the little hydraulic? piston as well such as https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/INA-WATE...016107&hash=item52323cf5c2:g:~UcAAOSwC9Reg32v however i cannot see how that comes off but according to ELSA there are a few bolts holding it in... Job itself isn't too bad other than shearing few of the engine mount bolts and having to find replacement and the obscurity of parts...

Were there 2 variants of ATL, one with hydraulic tensioner and one with mechanical/friction?

On the bright side waterpump fit fine and is in place all good...

Tensioner roller seems to be 045 109 243 C
Lil roller underneath 045 109 244 A

530 0090 10 INA kit seems to have all the bits i need... will give ECP a call tomorrow to see if they have stock anywhere near.

Any chance anyone have the part numbers for the hydraulic damper/kit? As i am banging my head against the wall a bit trying to find one without waterpump and in UK so it arrives mid week at least :/

Edit: Found damper from one of previous posts - 045109479B (https://www.a2oc.net/community/index.php?threads/hydraulic-timing-belt-tensioner.37613/)
 
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045109479B - Hydraulic Tensioner
Ktb415 Dayco Kit Belt + both pulleys and tensioner (No water pump)
530 0090 10 INA kit - Belt + Pulley NO TENSIONER
1987948166 - seems to be bosh, same as dayco (no water pump)

Using AMF reg/model in ECP finds correct kit... would be well nice if ECP would find parts by the part number...

Fair bit pricier this one (125 after codes vs 90 with coolant and water pump for the other INA kit, on ebay kit with tensioner separate seems to come to about 110 but then its good few days of shipping)

Thanks @Howey I should hopefully get the right bits tomorrow and finish the work in the evening and following day unless anything else snaps, assuming i can source a new engine mount bit that bolts to engine block (045 199 207 L) as i have no way of removing the

Does anyone know the secret of telling which damper you have for the belt before you take it all apart?
 
Howey said:
Top cover off and look down
Click to expand...

Ah well thought i was missing something. Appreciate the help finding correct kit, that felt well more complicated than it should've been.

Can do the remainder of cambelt, will then see about sorting the engine holder/mount, it does not look like Polo/Seat parts would fit (H/M versions) , will see if i can get a mate to help out with drill/welder to peel that bolt out, best not to push my luck with 2/3 bolts holding it...

I'll call it a day for now, fairly certain i have everything i require, just need to wait for bits to turn up.
 
Bit of an update then - This is well worth the 300-400 quid labor at a garage - but great learning experience (unless it blows up when i start it up!)

I feel like a bit of a potato - ordered wrong bolts so i only have old nearly sheared bolts for the crank pulley and they seem to be hard to find anywhere that deliver fast... ordered some from https://www.vwspares.co.uk/ with a new belt for alternator and ac, might as well though current one doesn't look bad.

Spent much longer than i'd like to admit figuring out the tensioner mechanism, mostly cause old one was pretty much spent and there wasn't much i could take away from it... the hydraulic rod fully extended and felt seized up as i could not push it back (i know cause i had to push the new one back in, cause i am an idiot and didn't read ahead!) which made me scratch my head a bit... anyways it is figured and timed and done pointy things line up so it will be the case of clench as hard as i can and turn the key - cranked few times over by hand and it feels right going clockwise, didn't want to see what it feels like anti.

Biggest head scratcher was the "4mm drill bit wrapped in tape" to do the gap for tensioner, faffed about for probably an hour until it felt right with a Allan Key that measured at 3.98mm which i had knocking about - i am sure this is a lot more straight forward the second time around and with the 2 pin hole wrench tool. - to add what would have made it easier to wrap what feels my dozen or so left brain cells around this - all the 4mm gap does is balance out the roller tension pressing down against the and the hydraulic rod counteracting it - when two are equal "enough" the gap filler can be pulled out.

All that's left is figuring out replacement engine "holder" as Audi seem to call it - 045199207L that has my snapped bolt held captive, after a day of hammering drilling cooking and trying to whack it out it's still there... short of drilling the whole thing out not much else left to do with it... likely to be toughest to source as few guys breaking these seem to be rather reluctant to take it apart just for that bit... Probably cause engine is held by it i guess.

Feels like the final straight, unless it explodes when i start it.
 
If you've removed all three bolt/heads, there should be nothing holding the support in place. When I bolt this support to an ANY, I always ignore the stretch part because the block is aluminium. It's never been a problem, done at least 10 times.

RAB
 
Update to seemingly close this off - received replacement "holder" and replaced it as i could not divorce the damn bolt from my original one - all back together and working great, picked up a replacement poly v belt, it wasn't terrible but starting to crack on the inside of it.

managed to strip thread from the bolt holes that hold the tensioner for poly v belt, luckily they are threaded all the way through, will grab a replacement at some point to swap it but for now got 10mm longer bolts and popped those in as they're through holes and threaded all the way, just took a lot longer to spanner them in.

Do hate putting the poly v belt in, even second/third time, cambelt seemed more straight forward.

Engine actually runs quieter now, it must've been banging against the hydraulic tensioner when in motion as old one was fully extended, though stationary belt was tight.

i do need a new poly v belt tensioner as it is pretty knackered, the back and forth motion is not smooth and actual roller is whiny, so will pick one of those up soon ish too.

Replacement main engine mount, though used, made a huge difference as it no longer rattles from get go nearly as much and engine feels more in place rather than bouncing about which i quite like, though feels a bit broken until i get used to it i guess.

Replaced a bunch of other bolts as well which seemed bit more corroded than I'd like and plopped some anti seize on good portion of them just in case.


All in all took nearly 2 weeks longer than planned but all sorted with new water pump (i will need to give it a good flush soon as well...) quite happy with the result and guess it cannot be helped old car all that, still costs me well less than something 10 years younger would overall, though this one seems to have had a lot of interesting servicing decisions in the past.

Edit - noticed engine vibrates a lot less too, idling with just a tiny little wobble, also poly v belt tensioner is practically stationary where as before it would wobble back and forth quite a lot... does not make a lot of sense to me but cambelt being new and tensioned seems to have made a lot bigger difference than i would have thought.
 
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Un4tural said:
Update to seemingly close this off - received replacement "holder" and replaced it as i could not divorce the damn bolt from my original one - all back together and working great, picked up a replacement poly v belt, it wasn't terrible but starting to crack on the inside of it.

managed to strip thread from the bolt holes that hold the tensioner for poly v belt, luckily they are threaded all the way through, will grab a replacement at some point to swap it but for now got 10mm longer bolts and popped those in as they're through holes and threaded all the way, just took a lot longer to spanner them in.

Do hate putting the poly v belt in, even second/third time, cambelt seemed more straight forward.

Engine actually runs quieter now, it must've been banging against the hydraulic tensioner when in motion as old one was fully extended, though stationary belt was tight.

i do need a new poly v belt tensioner as it is pretty knackered, the back and forth motion is not smooth and actual roller is whiny, so will pick one of those up soon ish too.

Replacement main engine mount, though used, made a huge difference as it no longer rattles from get go nearly as much and engine feels more in place rather than bouncing about which i quite like, though feels a bit broken until i get used to it i guess.

Replaced a bunch of other bolts as well which seemed bit more corroded than I'd like and plopped some anti seize on good portion of them just in case.


All in all took nearly 2 weeks longer than planned but all sorted with new water pump (i will need to give it a good flush soon as well...) quite happy with the result and guess it cannot be helped old car all that, still costs me well less than something 10 years younger would overall, though this one seems to have had a lot of interesting servicing decisions in the past.

Edit - noticed engine vibrates a lot less too, idling with just a tiny little wobble, also poly v belt tensioner is practically stationary where as before it would wobble back and forth quite a lot... does not make a lot of sense to me but cambelt being new and tensioned seems to have made a lot bigger difference than i would have thought.
Click to expand...
Have you fitted a new aux drive belt tensioner? Main thing to make them jump about is a seized one way alternator pulley?
 
Howey said:
Have you fitted a new aux drive belt tensioner? Main thing to make them jump about is a seized one way alternator pulley?
Click to expand...

I'll buy a new tensioner in a bit as the bearing for roller is knackered, but i wouldn't expect this to have made it bounce as much as it used to... it is nice and smooth now though.

not sure which bit is one way alternator pulley though - everything works alright now, only replaced the aux drive belt not tensioner but will get a replacement one shortly too - nothing was seized initially as far as i could tell.

Waiting on few dozen of wheel arch liner clips too as it turns out mine were held in by 2 screws and 1 clip before i even started taking things off :D

I've chucked it off to cam belt tensioner being fully extended and potentially that causing more vibration, but honestly it's just way out there of a guess, as it had quite a few bolts finger tight as well -_- not quite a death trap but had potential for a bang.
 
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