Do you want an electric A2?

You're comparing an MX5 conversion to an Audi A2 conversion. That said, no one has priced a conversion, and it would likely be a lot.

There's the DIY conversion route which is a lot cheaper and what I'm looking to go down, precisely because it is so much cheaper that I've gone over previously in this thread.

All electric cars are a bit too expensive at the moment, largely driven by battery costs and tbh, some sandbagging by manufacturers to place electric at the top end because there's no back end at the dealers. Servicing largely means, 'new tyres'.

ZeroEV and other conversion companies are more looking at the end of the market giving new life to 'classic' classics, not that anyone here is denying the A2 isn't :) But they've got a 911 bolt in kit and same with the Merc SL kit, where you'll pop the engine in storage and can pop it back in.

The end of the classic market with a bit of cash. This Ferrari 308, goes faster, and... goes further with electric. It's also become more of a day to day driver without the ridiculously short service intervals which aren't cheap, nor the temperamental nature of it.

Still early days with every day electric though.

 
@df_efk: Your calculation largely depends upon political decisions: in NL a diesel A2 will cost you € 1.000 road tax per year. Add to that € 1.000 fuel and € 500 extra maintenance (compared to electric) makes €2.500.
Charging the electric car at home (15 kWh / 100km and € 0,20 / kWh) is around € 500. With extra solar panels the price per kWh will be one third of that.

So you "earn" at least € 2.000 per year and your electric conversion is paid back in 10 years.

And one may expect politics to change in favour of electric, thereby reducing pay back time even further.
 
If you live near a Tesco (or others) with Pod Point, you can charge at 7.2kw for free!

RAB
 
So you "earn" at least € 2.000 per year and your electric conversion is paid back in 10 years.
And one may expect politics to change in favour of electric, thereby reducing pay back time even further.
There is another factor to take into account with these calculations as to the viability of running an electric vehicle. When discussing "pay back time" it should be taken into account that at any point it will have some re-saleable value. What that is compared to, say, a diesel or petrol vehicle SHOULD be considered? For example, a high cost factor with electric cars IS the need for battery replacement with time .....

David
 
So of i'd convert my 1.2 TDI in my country, cost would be covered within 25 years, by that time i'd assume i need new battery back. Since it's already converted, lets assume it will add another 10 years. By that time it does not make sense to use 50+ year old car anymore, if there are even parts available...
At the moment 3L is even greener CO2 wise in multiple european countries to use compared to electrics (driving Tesla is dirtier in here)...

Politics is another matter and can drastically change things. Also at some point they will need to start charging electric cars with road tax. They are using roads too and roads do need to be repaired, many electrics are heavy too. Everyone needs a tank to drive alone nowadays... And if everyone uses electric, where does that money come from?
If not, then they'll take money from other taxes (raising them) or ramp up electric bills for road tax.... And there are heavy taxes on fuel, which need to covered from other sources if nobody uses it.

So for me to really want my A2 to be electric, there needs to be illogical push from government or major breakthrough in battery technology and price.
 
@DJ 90: That is absolutely true. I know the previous owner replaced about 10 cells of my 86-cell battery pack and I replaced 24. So about one third of the pack needed replacement over the past 9 years. That boils down to about € 1.000 per year.

Then again, I bought a converted A2 for just € 6k so 14 years to go until I hit € 20k. :cool::D
 
As much as I like the concept of an electric A2, right now it’s cost prohibitive. Over and above this there is the concept of road charging being floated as the push to electric cars will created a £40 billion black hole in the public finances at a time when the government debt currently stands at £2.08 trillion.

The motorist is the easy target here and as such I’d really want the switch to electric to be paid back in 5 years, beyond 5 years nobody knows what’s going to happen (remember feeder tariffs for rooftop solar).

The most carbon neutral and cost effective way of motoring is to keep these A2’s on the road for as long as possible. Who doesn’t like a car that has little/no depreciation, peanuts to run and will probably last another 25 years, far better that than forking out £15k+ for a decent conversion or buying an electric car for £20k+ that’ll probably only last 10 years before the batteries are shot.
 
wish I hadn't typed that £20k. A conversion will come in well under half that for an A2, or less when it comes to converting super minis. That £20k is effectively restoring the MX5 back to near new, the £10k or less will largely do the same with smaller cars, or just even swapping out the drive chain.

Road charging is a possibility, given a big shift will be to home charging and not directly purchasing a fuel, but it mixing with running the kettle, but there's also cost savings by not pumping CO2 and NO2 into the atmosphere and burning Cobalt in fuel to stop acid rain (before someone jumps back in again with that FUD), so you get lower health care costs. It's just how politicians think though, they have a hammer and every problem is a nail to be taxed.

The money not spent on propping up oil companies doesn't disappear either. The money I've saved working from home has still been spent here in the UK (mainly at B&Q :) and not been sent elsewhere.

Best options though are to drive less. Cycling more will improve health and reduce emissions. Working from home will hopefully remain a trend and likely to be adopted as now a proven way to help companies meet CO2 neutral targets, similar coming in from 2030 onwards, seems an easy win for them.

Recycling new cars over building a billion new cars to replace the current fleet on the roads is better. You at least save on the CO2 cost of building a new chassis, etc.

Then finally New Cars which should be EV or Hydrogen, both powered by green sources.
 
wish I hadn't typed that £20k. A conversion will come in well under half that for an A2, or less when it comes to converting super minis. That £20k is effectively restoring the MX5 back to near new, the £10k or less will largely do the same with smaller cars, or just even swapping out the drive chain.
I agree a lot of what you say but not the above, at least not for new equipment. The websites I've seen by EV conversion specialists basically say don't call us unless you have £20k/£25k for the parts.

Prices I've seen are: batteries £9k (for a decent range without being too heavey), modern light motor £9k. I did knock up a s/s but never got round to populating it with £ as it seemed futile for me (not in a position for a DIY job). Scavaging parts from one or more wrecks might be the way forward.
Component
Units
Electric motor - 28kW​
1​
Electric motor controller DC-AC & AC-DC​
1​
DC-DC converter​
1​
AC-DC converter 3.3kW or 7kW​
1​
Charging sockets​
2​
Chargers / Inverters​
3​
Contactor to batteries​
1​
Battery Modules 40-45kWh total​
6​
BMS​
6​
Battery Boxes inc. “lids”​
2​
Electric vacuum pump​
1​
Extra vacuum cylinder​
1​
Cabin/battery heater​
1​
Cold/hot diverter valve​
1​
CANBUS interface​
1​
12V charger for lead-acid while charging​
1​
Engine to drive shaft plates​
2​
Engine mount bracket​
1​
Upgraded springs & shocks​
4​
Rear axle with disks​
1​
Sundries​
1​

I'm sure that list is incomplete.
 
Scavaging parts from one or more wrecks might be the way forward

I'm sure using a donor car will be the cheapest option in future, even if you put in a new battery pack. It's a bit like the idea of building a kit car in the past. A 5 year old 24kwh Leaf can be had for £7k, Zoe's are cheaper, although the batteries are on lease. There aren't many eUp or eGolf around yet, so they're expensive, but being VAG they'd probably be the easiest donors.

As has been said, I'm sure more and cheaper options will become available as time goes on and the technology becomes more mainstream.
 
If you were to do it now, via a company, yeah. £20k, becuase you're pretty much buying an electric car and shoving it into an existing one. I'm thinking another 2 years away or so.

There's crate electric motors starting to pop up too. A proper conversion isn't worth it for an A2 at present. The DIY route offers cheaper but then obviously you're providing the labour and risk. I'm planning on spending around £4k ish, but that will only get me 7-9kWh but I'll add batteries.

All the hybrids currently going through the company car route, with pristine electric components as the drivers are only interested in the BIK tax break and not actually charging the car, will be the donor cars

My plan is a mix of Toyota and BMW Plug in Hybrid OEM parts and some CAN voodoo.

Battery (7.5 to 9kWh ish BMW Hybrid Pack)£1000
Lexus RX400h Rear Differential ( 'MGR' Motor) - First and only thing I've purchased so far£160
Inverter to drive the motor (Toyota Prius Gen 3)*£100
Board to mod the inverter£350
Drive Shafts mod £200
Charger (hoping to adapt BMW Hybrid setup)*£100
Cables £200
HV Box (contactors, switches, etc.)£1000
CAN BUS controller£100
Vac Pump and cylinder£50
Steel Mounts and Battery Box (mainly materials, self weld)£200
Heater£100
Electric AC Pump£100
Sell BAD engine, gearbox? -£ some money back

* The Toyota Inverter could also be pressed into acting as a charger. Some of those figures are educated fingers in the air, and some are padded a fair bit too.

Mostly It'll be a learning exercise and a bit of fun, and probably a lot of swearing, still trying to work out the best route for batteries, charging, etc.

First up will be sniff the CAN. Which is a pretty cheap starting point.

The initial battery pack would fit all in the front bay, but also only manage about 40 miles tops. Might come in lighter than with engine. The car is barely doing 40 miles a week at present. It's the 200mi round trip to the office that's the problem. That's when the expensive battery pack comes in.

The brake master cylinder and ABS pump prevent a nice square battery box making the most of the engine bay, might be able to fit some more cells in, main option is to place a battery box where the fuel tank is under the rear seats. Rear suspension doesn't line up perfectly with the frame though for a nice rectangular space.

When my mind wanders... I'm trying to work out how to put a second MGR motor in the rear and make it an A2 Quattro... ;)

But that's where chassis modification and points for the conversion with the DVLA start to come into play.
 
It's not just an economy thing. You can unleash more power and the power delivery is very impressive in an EV.

For me, once I've finished the Leaf conversion, I will have a unique and fast A2 and the payback will be instant. My journey to work is 1 mile, so I will save next to nothing by having electric, but the fun element will be priceless.
 
but the fun element will be priceless.

That's why I keep on trying to think how to pop a second motor at the back, or think of a larger prius transaxle or Leaf motor as your doing.

If you're into tinkering with your car, why not try a new challenge? :)
 
yeah, it's the same guys who drive most of the development work on openinverter.org, repurposing OEM stuff.

Best tip is if you do watch one of Damien's videos on YouTube is to whack the speed up to 1.5x :)
 
yeah, it's the same guys who drive most of the development work on openinverter.org, repurposing OEM stuff.

Best tip is if you do watch one of Damien's videos on YouTube is to whack the speed up to 1.5x :)

I’m exactly the same! It makes it so much more watchable!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Hmm, I'm finding some inconsistencies!

The Auto Car article says the £900 is basically buying a scrap EV + DIY + selling the ICE car bits. Otherwise the article says
“You can have a bolt-in kit that would give you 200-miles of solid range, and 250kW rapid CCS charging, for about £6,000.".

Add £5,000 for labour = £11,000. Well that would be within my budget.

So, I went to their website https://www.electrifidreams.com/expressinterest and it says:
"As an example, something like our standard VW Beetle conversion will cost around €35,000 - €40,000 (including VAT) and give you a range of around 100 miles/160km. " and "As part of our initial phase of production, we specialise in Electrifying Classic cars. Our preference is to work with cars from the '50s right up to the early '80s."

Well that's 3 times the price, 1/2 the range and the A2 is 10 years too young :(

And for a car they have not done before, they will need the car for up to 12 months to complete the work.
 
Welcome to the real world ;)

I have yet to see a company offering a conversion of any car for less than € 25k (including VAT). Modern cars with many sensors and CANbusses are more complicated to convert and hence more expensive. The A2 is a relatively modern car...

Of course you can provide the labour yourself, but are you capable of programming the motor controller, the CANbus emulator, the BMS, the instrument panel,...? Do you know the CAN-messages and simulated sensor-outputs required to get the car moving? For example: power steering in an A2 will not work unless you send a message on the CANbus that the engine does at least 600 rpm.

A Nissan Leaf with 24 kWh battery pack will in theory do 95 miles (assuming 16 kWh/100km). With current battery technology it is simply impossible to pack the 45 kWh needed for a 200 miles range in an A2 (while still allowing a driver and 3 passengers in the car).
 
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