Edinburgh Low Emissions zone

This is the email from Audi UK:

Dear Mr Brown

Thank you for contacting AUDI Germany.

Please be advised the enquiry has been referred to Audi UK to respond.
I can confirm your vehicle has a Euro3 and not a Euro4 norm.

If you need any further assistance, please do contact me via the details below. Please be advised you will shortly receive a survey regarding myself, and how you feel I managed the enquiry I would appreciate some feedback.

Thank you for contacting Audi UK.



These are the emission levels:

Measurement1999 Lupo 3L2001 A2 1.2TdiEU4 standard
CO g/km0.2220.2280.5
NOx g/km0.2200.2400.25
HC+NOx g/kmNot Listed0.2610.3
Particulates g/km0.0230.0210.025

I'm tempted to buy a 2001 A2 petrol, just to drive into CAZ/LEZs, get fined, not pay and get taken to court!

RAB
 
Just out of interest, according to AA website:

Euro 4 emission limits (petrol)​


  • CO – 1.0 g/km
  • HC – 0.10 g/km
  • NOx – 0.08
  • PM – no limit
FSi according to my V5:

CO 0.148
HC 0.058
NOx 0.014

Euro Status (on my log-book): blank.

Therefore, FSi's (as @PlasticMac says) easily meet E4 requirements and on this V5 at least, haven't yet been allocated a Euro status. Will also try the above, so thank you for the info ? Currently TFL says I'd have to pay the ULEZ charge assuming someone had dragged my country bumkin behind into the big smoke in the first place.
I think TFL use the DVLA database, so until you send your V5, CoC, and Audi's letter, off to DVLA, their data will agree with your current V5, ie no Euro classification. Once DVLA send you a new V5 showing the appropriate Euro classification, the database will be updated, (probably) ...
Mac.
This is the email from Audi UK:

Dear Mr Brown

Thank you for contacting AUDI Germany.

Please be advised the enquiry has been referred to Audi UK to respond.
I can confirm your vehicle has a Euro3 and not a Euro4 norm.

If you need any further assistance, please do contact me via the details below. Please be advised you will shortly receive a survey regarding myself, and how you feel I managed the enquiry I would appreciate some feedback.

Thank you for contacting Audi UK.



These are the emission levels:

Measurement1999 Lupo 3L2001 A2 1.2TdiEU4 standard
CO g/km0.2220.2280.5
NOx g/km0.2200.2400.25
HC+NOx g/kmNot Listed0.2610.3
Particulates g/km0.0230.0210.025

I'm tempted to buy a 2001 A2 petrol, just to drive into CAZ/LEZs, get fined, not pay and get taken to court!

RAB
Just send an email to the
 
This is the email from Audi UK:

Dear Mr Brown

Thank you for contacting AUDI Germany.

Please be advised the enquiry has been referred to Audi UK to respond.
I can confirm your vehicle has a Euro3 and not a Euro4 norm.

If you need any further assistance, please do contact me via the details below. Please be advised you will shortly receive a survey regarding myself, and how you feel I managed the enquiry I would appreciate some feedback.

Thank you for contacting Audi UK.



These are the emission levels:

Measurement1999 Lupo 3L2001 A2 1.2TdiEU4 standard
CO g/km0.2220.2280.5
NOx g/km0.2200.2400.25
HC+NOx g/kmNot Listed0.2610.3
Particulates g/km0.0230.0210.025

I'm tempted to buy a 2001 A2 petrol, just to drive into CAZ/LEZs, get fined, not pay and get taken to court!

RAB
@RAB
Just email [email protected]
with your VIN, asking for confirmation of Euro Classification, along with your VIN, and see what you get back.
You may be surprised.
Don't refer to anything that's gone before. KISS principle.
Mac.
 
I think TFL use the DVLA database, so until you send your V5, CoC, and Audi's letter, off to DVLA, their data will agree with your current V5, ie no Euro classification. Once DVLA send you a new V5 showing the appropriate Euro classification, the database will be updated, (probably) ...
Mac.

Just send an email to the
Que? Cut off in your prime Mac? If you mean DVLA, been there, done that!
@RAB
Just email [email protected]
with your VIN, asking for confirmation of Euro Classification, along with your VIN, and see what you get back.
You may be surprised.
Don't refer to anything that's gone before. KISS principle.
Mac.
I'll try that but I have a feeling what the answer will be! What does your option sticker show, EU3 or EU4?

RAB
 
I think TFL use the DVLA database, so until you send your V5, CoC, and Audi's letter, off to DVLA, their data will agree with your current V5, ie no Euro classification. Once DVLA send you a new V5 showing the appropriate Euro classification, the database will be updated, (probably) ...
Mac.
With regard to this matter, DVLA recently sent me two new V5s, again without any indication of EU status. Not only that but there's no obvious location for that rating on the V5. So Barry would be wasting his time in all likelihood. I should also state that this procedure took about three months!

RAB
 
Que? Cut off in your prime Mac? If you mean DVLA, been there, done that!

I'll try that but I have a feeling what the answer will be! What does your option sticker show, EU3 or EU4?

RAB
The build code printout shows Euro 4.
Not sure I ever had a prime, but its definitely past.
Mac.
 
The
Just out of interest, according to AA website:

Euro 4 emission limits (petrol)​


  • CO – 1.0 g/km
  • HC – 0.10 g/km
  • NOx – 0.08
  • PM – no limit
FSi according to my V5:

CO 0.148
HC 0.058
NOx 0.014

Euro Status (on my log-book): blank.

Therefore, FSi's (as @PlasticMac says) easily meet E4 requirements and on this V5 at least, haven't yet been allocated a Euro status. Will also try the above, so thank you for the info ? Currently TFL says I'd have to pay the ULEZ charge assuming someone had dragged my country bumkin behind into the big smoke in the first place.
It's weird because TFL says I'd only have to pay congestion charge on my '03 plate 1.6 FSI.

However my (now my dad's) X registered 1.4 AUA SE is liable for the ULEZ fee, as well as the Congestion Charge, so it's definitely worth sending off an letter from Audi when I send the Change of Owner notification to DVLA.

Fingers crossed. The email address shared is responsive.
 
The
It's weird because TFL says I'd only have to pay congestion charge on my '03 plate 1.6 FSI.

However my (now my dad's) X registered 1.4 AUA SE is liable for the ULEZ fee, as well as the Congestion Charge, so it's definitely worth sending off an letter from Audi when I send the Change of Owner notification to DVLA.

Fingers crossed. The email address shared is responsive.
It will be but you will be disappointed. Your car is EU3 but is EU4 compliant and should be treated as such. In Germany it would be treated as EU4 but EU3 by the DVLA. Because the DVLA do not see fit to put even EU3 on your V5, in France your car will treated as EU2. These EU classifications are supposed to be Europe-wide but are treated in three different ways in three different countries! Idiocy or what?

RAB
 
I'm getting COC's for both petrol a2's just in case.
It won't help I'm afraid. The EU classification on your CoC (if any) won't be any different from that recorded at the DVLA. The UK government seems to want to penalise early adopters of cleaner technology. My Brexit party MP will shortly get an email on the subject.

RAB
 
There's no such thing as an EU3 A2 Fsi. They are EU4, hence your letter:


RAB
I think early FSIs could be. Euro 3, according to the build codes, for the same reason as your 1.2 is, ie they pre-date Euro 4 being drafted.
As the Audi letter is being written now, as long as the emission data meets Euro 4, the letter text should read:
"... I hereby declare that the vehicle with the above Chassis Number
meets EU4 compliance" because it does.
I now understand what @RAB is saying.
If Rab's logic, that if the build code shows Euro 3, you're stuck with Euro 3,even though the car meets Euro 4, is indeed correct, owners of early FSIs and 1.4 Petrols (and 1.2.Diesels) will be unfairly penalised.
Let's see what a few of you get back from Audi.
If there's a problem, maybe A2OC can "reach out" (in the current vernacular) to Mr Jackson at Audi on behalf of the members.
Mac.
It won't help I'm afraid. The EU classification on your CoC (if any) won't be any different from that recorded at the DVLA. The UK government seems to want to penalise early adopters of cleaner technology. My Brexit party MP will shortly get an email on the subject.

RAB
If you get a letter, as I did, stating the car is Euro 4, DVLA will send a replacement V5, and update their database.
Mac.
 
This issue affects a significant number of cars: all petrol Lupos/Arosas, Polos and A2s built between 1998 and about 2003 as a minimum. The car companies are not to blame for this; EU4 did not exist at the time so they were deemed EU3 and this cannot be changed. However, in many cases these are absolutely identical to later EU4 models. If a car is EU4 compliant, it should be treated in exactly the same way as an EU4 model. In Germany, at least, this has always been the case.

RAB
 
I've just sent an email to my Brexit party MP:

"Dear Ms Ansell,



The commissioning of Clean Air and Low Emission Zones means that only vehicles that are certified to EU4 and above can drive within these zones without charge. However there are many, many vehicles that are certified as EU3 but whose emissions are lower in all instances than the EU4 standard. Models that fall into this category are all petrol VW/Seat Lupos/Arosas, VW Polos and Audi A2 cars built between 1998 and about 2003, as a minimum. When the owner of such a vehicles applies to TfL or one of the CAZs they are invariably told that their vehicles do not comply and they will have to pay a charge, even though their cars meet the EU4 standard.



Is it government policy to penalise early adopters of cleaner technology? At present, I own two diesel cars, one a 1999 Lupo 3L and a 2001 Audi A2 1.2Tdi. Both meet the EU4 exhaust standard but are treated by the DVLA as EU3. In Germany both cars qualify for a green plakette, which is what an EU4 car would qualify for. If you apply for a Crit'Air certificate in France, what you get is determined by the EU value on your V5; if that is not present (as is the case with both my V5s), your certificate will be determined by the year of first registration. Therefore in France our Lupo 3L would get an EU2 certificate and the A2 an EU3 certificate, despite both meeting the EU4 standard. I have attempted to get the DVLA to update both V5s; after a three month wait they sent me new V5s, again without any EU classification! The table below shows the two car's emission values along with the EU4 standard:



Measurement1999 Lupo 3L2001 Audi A2EU4 standard
CO g/km0.2220.2280.5
NOx g/km0.2200.2400.25
HC+NOx g/kmNot Listed0.2610.3
Particulates g/km0.0230.0210.025


So to sum up, in Germany both cars are considered EU4, In the UK EU3 and in France, one as EU2 and one as EU3. These standards are meant to be Europe-wide, so why are they applied differently in different countries? Before you say anything about Brexit, this was the case before Brexit. That the Lupo 3L only qualifies for an EU2 certificate in France is entirely due to the abject failure of the DVLA to place any EU classification on the V5.



Your government likes to talk green and do the opposite. A case in point is the Green Homes Grant; a miserable failure managed by a company based in the USA! There were 123,000 applications by the time that the scheme was abandoned, but only 28,000 vouchers had been issued and only 5,800 energy efficient measures had been installed! Is it because such schemes run counter to the ideology of the Brexit party or that you just don't like spending the money?



While on the subject, when is the government going to tackle the problem of the illegal blanking of the exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) on diesel cars and the removal of their catalysts? Companies are allowed to advertise these services under the fig leaf that this is allowed for off-road use. This also begs the question of why this is allowed for off-road use, as if people were not subjected to this source of pollution? Cars with their EGR blanked off emit something like 40x more pollution.



https://www.newscientist.com/articl...MIyqes4fW44wIVTLTtCh1NeQ7-EAMYASAAEgK7z_D_BwE



Currently there is absolutely no testing for the presence of catalysts or a working EGR system in diesel cars.



Yours sincerely"

My expectations are low, very low, especially considering who the Minister for Transport is!

RAB
 
That the Lupo 3L only qualifies for an EU2 certificate in France is entirely due to the abject failure of the DVLA to place any EU classification on the V5.
Is this mistyped? I can’t see why the DVLA placing emissions standards on UK V5 documents would make any difference to what vehicles qualify as in France?

Tim
 
Would anyone who, having requested CoC from Audi, receives a letter stating their car is Euro 3, when they believe it's Euro 4 according to the emission data, let us know.
This seems likely to be early 1.6 and 1.4 Petrol engined A2s built between 1998 and 2003.
Cheers Mac.
 
Is this mistyped? I can’t see why the DVLA placing emissions standards on UK V5 documents would make any difference to what vehicles qualify as in France?

Tim
No mistype. If you apply for a Crit'Air certificate in France, what you get will be determined by the EU value on your V5. If, as in my case, that value is not present, what you get is determined by the year of first registration; the actual emission values are ignored. So a 1999 UK registered Lupo 3L will get a Crit'Air certificate that equates to EU2. Try it yourself:


RAB
 
Would anyone who, having requested CoC from Audi, receives a letter stating their car is Euro 3, when they believe it's Euro 4 according to the emission data, let us know.
This seems likely to be early 1.6 and 1.4 Petrol engined A2s built between 1998 and 2003.
Cheers Mac.
Mac, there's no such thing as an EU3 1.6FSi. They are all EU4. Plenty of EU3 1.4s though!

RAB
 
No mistype. If you apply for a Crit'Air certificate in France, what you get will be determined by the EU value on your V5. If, as in my case, that value is not present, what you get is determined by the year of first registration; the actual emission values are ignored. So a 1999 UK registered Lupo 3L will get a Crit'Air certificate that equates to EU2. Try it yourself:


RAB
Ah yes that makes sense. I was thinking about cars registered in France.
 
Ah yes that makes sense. I was thinking about cars registered in France.
The situation in France is exactly the same as that in the UK. An EU3 car is an EU3 car, despite it possibly meeting EU4 emission standards. As in the UK, the actual emissions are ignored.

RAB
 
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