Electric conversion project

Watched the recent EV car program and was surprised to hear that a converted vehicle does not gain EV status as the certified emissions levels cannot be changed. The rules may however be different on pre 2001 cars where the VED is based on engine size.
Presumably ULEZ compliance would not change either

Cheers Spike
 
Thought I should chip in here. We bought our first A2 (75 bhp petrol) in 2004 and then a 75 bhp TDI with sky roof in ~2011 (as advertised here), and have happily used both as everyday run-arounds since. Petrol now at 175 k miles, diesel at 215 k. We keep on thinking about whether to replace one or the other of these cars, e.g. to help reduce emissions (we are conscious of sustainability issues, though we know that there is no silver bullet) and/or to have a ULEV vehicle - neither A2 will quality in our local city. But actually, we are rather attached to these cars. We have followed this 'conversion' thread with great interest, and were coming to the view we'd much rather convert probably our petrol A2 to electric than to buy any other car .... but to see that ULEZ compliance would not be achieved - surely this is madness! I watched the Transition One video with great interest - they have the right idea. So the aluminium body & frame of an A2 combined with no tailpipe emissions sounds like a dream ticket and worth paying for. I wonder if Scottish government would be able to have their own rules about recognising electric conversions in urban centres?

Thanks to everyone for their posts on this topic. Cheers, Andrew
 
It would be very possible to convert an a2 to electric, and it doesn't need to be expensive either if you can find good used parts.

I have a fiat 126 that I am converting to electric, granted this is much simpler than the a2 as there are hardly any electrics on it so no CAN-BUS to worry about. The aim with the fiat is to do it cheap, so I found a second hand Citreon C1 evie as a donor for all the parts. You have to be realistic with what to expect, I am hoping for 40ish HP and about 60 miles range. The conversion should come in less than 3k i hope. If you are wanting tesla range and performance then that would cost lots and be a lot more complex, but it can be done on a budget and kept fairly simple.
 
In the late 60's/70's there used to be a magazine called "Custom Car". (I think that I purchased the first issue!) Anyway, it was all about doing just about anything to run-of-the-mill cars. Favourite topics were fitting larger engines and lowering the ride height. Even lowering the ROOF, I seem to recall! It's a pity that there isn't a similar magazine for electric conversions. Maybe "Custom electric car"? Maybe there will be, in the near future? Anyway, I'd be all for converting my laid-up A2 to electric. It's a bit sad that such a shining star of a car isn't out there being enjoyed and used! I do like challenges and I've got the time and funds to do this ..... I just need to find another member(s) to share in the experience and (hopefully) the rewards!

David
 
In the late 60's/70's there used to be a magazine called "Custom Car". (I think that I purchased the first issue!) Anyway, it was all about doing just about anything to run-of-the-mill cars. Favourite topics were fitting larger engines and lowering the ride height. Even lowering the ROOF, I seem to recall! It's a pity that there isn't a similar magazine for electric conversions. Maybe "Custom electric car"? Maybe there will be, in the near future? Anyway, I'd be all for converting my laid-up A2 to electric. It's a bit sad that such a shining star of a car isn't out there being enjoyed and used! I do like challenges and I've got the time and funds to do this ..... I just need to find another member(s) to share in the experience and (hopefully) the rewards!

David
What are your goals regarding an electric conversion? Range, speed, still looking OEM?

It could be done, the problem with any ev conversion is where to fit the batteries, in my 126 it is rear engine and already has a "frunk" so some batteries can go in the back where there is space next to the motor, and some can go in the front, this still leaves the boot space free. In the A2 its a bit trickier, there would be some space in the front after removing the engine, but probably not enough, that leaves putting some batteries in the boot and using valuable space. Fitting less batteries would an option, but that reduces range, current etc... it all depends what you want from the converted car?
 
it all depends what you want from the converted car?
Well, that's a two-way thing. Most of the time I just do short local trips of a few miles. I have alternative vehicles for other longer trips which are both very economical. So if the A2 was converted to electric but with only a nominal range (even as low as 50 miles), then that would be fit for purpose. The benefit to me would be no gear-changes, silent running, ease of re-charging and novelty. ( I'm not sure about road-fund and insurance cost, though). The other alternative is a more ambitious conversion that resulted in a much increased range. Here I'm talking about well in excess of 200 miles. Possible even as much as 250 miles. I would hope that the end result would then be something very special and obviously it would need a hefty level of financial investment. I can handle that and would think that £20, 000 might be realistic. (most new electric vehicles are well in excess of that amount) I'd probably then be thinking of the disposal of my every-day car, the Dacia Sandero Bi-fuel. I's noteworthy for its astonishing fuel economy and its ability to travel over 800 miles on its combined fuel tanks. I am delighted with it and it's hard to fault it.
The very best outcome of a project of this nature would be if it provided a reliable blueprint for the conversion of A2's to electric with the best components and pitfalls to be avoided. 👍

David
 
Members of the German A2 Forum have been doing EV conversions since 2014 and some are even into providing CANBUS interface electronics.

Unfortunately some very promising projects (e.g. using Tesla batteries with long range) have stalled for some years when they seemed almost finished. There has also been issues with getting regulatory approval. I recall reading the DVLA want lots of documentation and photos of the complete conversion process. Being trained in HV work is highly recommended.

The German A2 forum EV section is here via Google Translate You will have to use Chrome and I find the next page links only work by right clicking on Continue and then selecting Open link in new tab

Perhaps the best recorded conversion I saw was an English guy in Italy who made 12 YouTube episodes 12 years ago. Must be easier today (but not easy!) with many EVs getting written-off.
 
Well, that's a two-way thing. Most of the time I just do short local trips of a few miles. I have alternative vehicles for other longer trips which are both very economical. So if the A2 was converted to electric but with only a nominal range (even as low as 50 miles), then that would be fit for purpose. The benefit to me would be no gear-changes, silent running, ease of re-charging and novelty. ( I'm not sure about road-fund and insurance cost, though). The other alternative is a more ambitious conversion that resulted in a much increased range. Here I'm talking about well in excess of 200 miles. Possible even as much as 250 miles. I would hope that the end result would then be something very special and obviously it would need a hefty level of financial investment. I can handle that and would think that £20, 000 might be realistic. (most new electric vehicles are well in excess of that amount) I'd probably then be thinking of the disposal of my every-day car, the Dacia Sandero Bi-fuel. I's noteworthy for its astonishing fuel economy and its ability to travel over 800 miles on its combined fuel tanks. I am delighted with it and it's hard to fault it.
The very best outcome of a project of this nature would be if it provided a reliable blueprint for the conversion of A2's to electric with the best components and pitfalls to be avoided. 👍

David
Well I think a simple conversion with a realistic range of up to 100 miles should be possible. The way I would go about it would be to use an off the shelf AC induction motor rather than something from an existing EV. I would use the existing gearbox and mate a motor to it with an adaptor plate, something like the HPEVS AC-50. You wouldn't need the clutch, it could be coupled directly to the gearbox either with a solid or semi rigid coupling. This would allow you to either still use the gearbox as a manual, or work out what would be the best gear for your driving aim and lock the gearbox in that gear, reverse would be handled by running the motor backwards.

You could use a permanent magnet DC motor, simpler but you loose regen braking. If you wanted to keep it as a manual and shift gears, you might need to find a way to disable regeneration during the shift.

Check out this link for example prices for motors and controllers, curtis controllers seem to be the norm with the HPEV motors:
The AC50 could give upto 90-odd horsepower with enough batteries (144v pack)

For batteries, there are many options, I had a poke about my A2 earlier and it looks like there could be a decent amount of space in the boot under the false floor if everything else is removed, so a split pack with some in the boot and some under the bonnet might work OK.

There are loads of different battery packs from various EVs that could be used, just depends on what you can find in budget. I would be tempted to use LiFePo4 packs or cells however, they are not as... explodey as Li-ion! Slightly less energy dense but safer for a DIY EV. Battery management system is pretty much mandatory, Orion BMS is the one that has been catching my eye for my conversion but they can be pricey, but they can also talk CAN to chargers and motor controller etc. There are many different options.

Again, you could find a drive from another ev, tesla perhaps, but by far the easiest would be to keep as much of the A2 as standard as you can, so coupling a motor to the existing gearbox would be the way to go I think. Avoids having to mess about with mountings, suspension, driveshafts etc

I am happy to help as much as I can via the Internet but I am a bit too far away and busy with work to help in person!
 
It's going to bit a bit of a struggle to raise that amount, but it shouldn't be forgotten that it would be an asset and not a total loss of capital. It might take a few years to pay for itself, based on fuel savings alone, though ..... :D

David
 
I just remembered that I knew a nice aluminium car, the A2 and was thinking about an EV conversion of it.
There's a French company , https://transition-one.fr/ . They make or rather will make kits for EV conversions and they have one for the Polo 4.
How close do you guys think the A2 is to the Polo 4 ?
I imagine there will be some differences like in how the batteries are placed or rather where they will be placed.
From what I understand a major issue is the adapter from the electric motor to the gearbox. I think this might work from the Polo 4 as people were using Polo gearboxes on the Audi from what I understand.
Anything else ? Maybe some mounts for the electric engine as I assume they will not match what the Polo 4 has.
 
I've read recently that electric cars have become less economic to run than diesels because of the staggering increase in the cost of electricity. Then the government are about to drop the zero annual duty rate, too. I've then read that because diesel fuel is some 20p more per litre than petrol, there is very little saving in running a diesel compared to a petrol-fuelled vehicle. It's a right head-scratcher at the moment! There are already quite a few examples of A2's being converted to electric. Have a look on Youtube .... There's also an a Dutch member of our Forum that runs an electric A2. I've got a really immaculate and highly equipped A2 just stood here. It's redundant and I'd readily convert it to electric power. I'd readily purchase an "off-the-shelf" kit for the Audi A2, if one was available.

David
 
It really depends from person to person and from location to location. In my home country of Romania you can still get cheap electricity, especially at night. There are still some free charging stations where you could in theory charge your car.
In my case though I plan to buy a house and put photovoltaic panels so electricity will be most of the time more or less free.

For the second part, I have no skills at all in mechanics or EV conversion but I do have some programming skills so on the software side perhaps I could manage with some things.
The best and easiest option seems this Transition One Polo 4 kit. It might still need some tinkering but it seems a much better option than a from scratch option. It will probably not be that cost effective though as I think it costs around 8000 E ( 5000 E is with subsidies but only in France ).
For that money you can buy a 2013 Zoe or Leaf which just works.
Still I think I want the Audi A2 anyway regardless of the fact that it might end up costing more.
I think Transition One are not ready with their kits yet so we'll need to monitor what happens.
 
I may have got things slightly wrong when I said that EV's were more expensive to run on a per-mile basis. Below are a couple of quotes taken from an article in yesterday's Daily Telegraph (2/01/2023) ....
"According to the AA, charging to 80% at home costs about £21 based on the current price cap for electricity, whereas a fast public charge costs an average £30, but as much as £46" and, "Charging at home means each mile driven costs 8 pence compared to 14.6 pence per mile for petrol and 13.3 pence for diesel" Interest in electric vehicles has shown a marked decline recently, however.

David
 
Yeah I think electricity will keep being cheaper than gas, at least in the EU because there's lots of taxes added to fuel in the EU but anyway as I said sometimes it's not about cost, just wishing to have it happen. Of course if it would cost too much I'd probably give up on the idea but up to 10K Euros I think it might make sense for me or some others.
Then again new cheap electrics like Dacia Spring can be had for 12K here in Romania so there's that if you just want some cheap new electric car without bothering.
 
Nobody has mentioned the conversion and type approval……..basically all cars after 20000 have type approval and in the uk the tax and emissions stays with the vehicle and cannot be changed. So a tdi car (for example) will always be so, and even if you convert to electric, it’ll always be see and taxed as one, and as yet nobody has got around it.
Look up DIY electric car forum. Basically if you want electric, it’s got to be pre 2000 or you’ll have to pay tax /low emissio tariff etc
 
I'm aware that Transition One doesn't have a kit for the A2 and probably given the A2 numbers they don't plan to either. They do have one for the Polo 4 as I said and I think that's close enough to the A2, at least as far as the gearbox and engines go. Might need some adaptations but I'd still take it rather than some custom job from scratch.
I do hope they will eventually deliver something and not just be all hype and then just go away.

As for taxes and approval and all this I have no idea. I'm pretty sure it's not like that in Romania where I plan to register the car but I'll have to look it up to see.
Taxes are low anyway even if it's a normal petrol A2 so I'm not really worried.
 
Approvals and the DVLA are a clusterfudge at the moment. The DVLA are currently having a jobsworth moment around EV conversions around drilling holes into the chassis for mounting batteries for instance. A fair enough safety statement, but also about drilling or cutting holes into what constitutes body work (think boot floor for EVs). But they're also affecting van conversions, and all other sorts of modifications and forcing people down the IVA route.

You also won't get the tax code changed for anything after 2001, so an X or Y reg A2 should work, although with EV taxes coming in that might change to whatever tax bracket that is. Getting the V5 changed to electric for fuel type should be possible, but then you're hoping that filters to any ANPR system that want's to fine you for ULEZ or emissions free bus lanes you can use.

If we had a government interested in actually governing they might take a look at it. But there's no easy money to be made or easy/popular choices around it so it's beyond their interest or level of competence.
 
Not sure if our perspective adds any light to the Ev conversation but thought I would share our situation in any case.
We bought my wife’s 2002 1.4 TDi ten years ago as a low mileage model in immaculate condition. We loved the whole A2 design concept and it’s pioneering sustainability credentials were in line with our own values. ( I have worked with renewables and environmental design for the past 30 years) . This week we had our first ever MOT failure (corrosion of the rear axle), which our local garage says is uneconomical to repair. The thought of scrapping our beloved “Little Plutt” (or breaking for parts) is extremely upsetting. But neither can we bring ourselves to invest a significant sum in keeping an aging diesel vehicle on the road. So for us the ideal solution ( probably driven more by heart rather than head) would be an A2 EV conversion that keeps our beloved Plutt” alive and on the road for another 10 years. So if anyone happens to come across a (sub £10K) EV conversion solution we would love to hear from you. It would make a couple of aging A2 lovers very happy! :)
 
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