Front brake upgrade options ?
- Thread starter stevec
- Start date
You need to be very careful recommending the Golf 4 parts for this task on an A2 - at a glance the hub castings look identical to the Polo / Fabia ones, but they are intended for bearings that are a size larger than the 72mm bearings with integrated ABS ring, and have a different positioning of the ABS sensor. I've got a set of the Golf ones unused in my garage from having made that mistake on my first brake conversion.
Of brakes and men.
Last MOT it was noted that one of my Bilstein B4 front shocks was showing some minor seepage (it's done 20-odd thousand miles in a couple of years and there are some ropey roads around here so I'm not entirely surprised). They also commented that the front pads (Pagid) fitted at the same time...
www.a2oc.net
The ATE left brake caliper 11.9541-9595.2 and ATE right caliper 11.9541-9596.2 (shown in your photo with the blue top flash) is for 312mm front brake discs, not 288mm front brake discs. These were fitted to various VAG cars including Audi A3 MK1, VW Golf MK4, VW Polo MK4.
The later 310x25mm front brake discs are interchangeable with the earlier 312x25mm front brake discs. The later 310mm discs have a minimum wear thickness of 22mm, whereas the earlier 312mm discs have a minimum wear of 23mm. So you get 50% more mileage out of the later 310mm discs, ie. 3mm of wear instead of 2mm. ATE no longer appear to sell the earlier 312mm discs, but sell the later 310mm discs instead to use in their place so they are interchangeable.
It's probably best to use the later 288mm/310mm ATE brake calipers that were fitted to cars such as VW Polo MK5, VW Golf MK5, Audi A1 MK1, Audi A3 MK2, Audi TT MK2. This is because these later ATE brake calipers can be used with both 288mm and 310mm front brake discs. If you wanted to change the disc size in the future from 288mm to 310mm, or vice-versa, all that would be needed is to change the carriers and the discs because the brake calipers are the same.
You would use a wheel bearing housing from cars such as the VW Polo MK4/MK5, Audi A1, etc., and not VW Golf sized cars as VW Golf sized cars use bigger outside diameter tyres and therefore have bigger front wheel bearings and maybe other differences such as ABS rings, etc.
Example of suitable wheel bearing housings for 288mm/310mm front brakes
Left wheel bearing housing (suitable OEM part numbers include 6C0407255A from VW Polo MK4)
Right wheel bearing housing (suitable OEM part numbers include 6C0407256A from VW Polo MK4)
Example of 310x25mm front brake discs (suitable OEM part numbers include 8N0615301A from VW Polo MK4)
When you're looking at non-standard front brake calipers, it's always worth checking to see if the brake pads are available with and without wear indicators. Sometimes brake pads are only available with wear indicators, and sometime brake pads are only available without wear indicators.
Example of suitable brake pads for later ATE 288mm/310mm brake calipers
With wear indicator
Without wear indicator
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14" rims fit over 256mm front discs.
15" rims fit over 288mm front discs.
16" rims fit over 310mm/312mm front discs.
Convert the size of the disc to inches, then add 3.5 inches, then round the total up to the next whole inch.
This formula might not always work, but it does with the following disc sizes:
239mm 13" rim
256mm 14" rim
276mm 15" rim
280mm 15" rim
288mm 15" rim
310mm 16" rim
312mm 16" rim
340mm 17" rim
Example for 239mm disc
(239/25.4)+3.5=12.91=13 rounded up to the next whole inch
Proghound
Admin Team
I think the caliper is what adding 3.5 inches is for David. Presumably even the chunkiest calipers don't protrude more than 1.75" from the edge of the disc when mounted - that's a measurement of radius, so double it to get the extra rim diameter required to cover them. Then round up to the next actual rim size.
Pepperpots are from the Audi A3 MK1.
The Audi parts catalogue shows that some versions of this car use 288mm front discs.
Jurid on autodoc shows that the 1.9TDI 130HP and 1.8 petrol 180HP versions of the Audi A3 MK1 use 288mm front discs.
wheel-size.com shows that all versions of the Audi A3 MK1 can use 15" rims, except for the very powerful S3 cars (over 200HP) which use 312mm front discs.
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Proghound
Admin Team
@Cameron Waters I know you're currently selling some pepperpots because your large brakes won't fit under them ... what size are those discs, please?
Desmo
Member
Calipers are same both for 288 and 312mm. Carriers are different. Both fit to 9N and Mk4 Golf platform and 288mm is suitable for 15 inch rim:
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According to ATE they are not interchangeable. They say that one set of calipers is for 288mm and the other set of calipers is for 312mm. I even contacted ATE about this and they stuck to their guns and refused to admit what they were doing with regards to their sharp business practices. I'm actually a fan of ATE but I guess for them business is business.
You can see below that non of the OEM part numbers that each set of calipers is sold to replace are shared.
However, what I suspect ATE is doing, is deliberately selling the same parts under different part numbers in order to inflate the price of the 312mm versions. On autodoc, all brands except ATE are listing the same calipers for both the 288mm and the 312mm front brake discs so the evidence is starting to look conclusive against ATE. Both versions use interchangeable brake pads and both versions have the same 54mm piston diameter.
In the two below photos of presumably the same calipers, ATE have reversed the position of both sets of calipers and even used slightly different colour shades in order to confuse the customer that these really are different calipers...which they are not.
Left brake caliper for 288mm front brake disc ATE 24.3541-8523.5
OEM part numbers 3A0615123 3A0615123A
Right brake caliper for 288mm front brake disc ATE 24.3541-8524.5
OEM part numbers 3A0615124 3A0615124A
Left brake caliper for 312mm front brake disc ATE 11.9541-9595.2
OEM part numbers 1J0615123B 1J0615123C 1J0615123D 1U0615123 8L0615123 8N0615123
Right brake caliper for 312mm front brake disc ATE 11.9541-9596.2
OEM part numbers 1J0615124B 1J0615124C 1J0615124D 1U0615124 8L0615124 8N0615124
ATE front brake pads with wear indicator for above brake calipers 288mm/312mm
ATE front brake pads without wear indicator for above brake calipers 288mm/312mm
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dj_efk
A2OC Donor
Ah great info - thanks!
I wonder whether the increase in brake performance is worth the effort?
The non-1.2TDI A2s already have a significant increase in braking power over the 1.2TDI A2. Even the non-1.2TDI rear drum brakes are significantly more powerful than the 1.2TDI rear drum brakes, ie. 200x40mm vs 180x30mm.
It depends how you are going to drive the car and the other components that are on the car, such as tyres.
For someone who fits a sporty tyre size such as 185/55R15, then bigger 288mm front brake discs would make sense to complete the package although the braking performance might get worse in slippery conditions such as ice. This is because when you fit much more powerful front brakes than standard but keep the original rear brakes, there can be a mismatch in the performance of the front and rear brakes.
In icy conditions, if the front brakes are twice as powerful as the rear brakes, the front brakes will lock up when the rear brakes are only performing at 50% of their potential. On the Polo MK4 the 200x40mm rear drum brakes are used with both 239x18mm and 256x22mm front brake discs. So to use 288x25mm front discs with these modest rear 200x40mm drum brakes could make your stopping distances in icy condition longer, not shorter.
There's also 175/65R14, 185/65R14, 195/65R14 to consider. 175/65R14 being an economical size, 185/65R14 possibly being the ideal 14" tyre size for the A2, and 195/65R14 having a chunky look. However, 14" tyres do appear to be unpopular with most A2 owners, although one owner did admit to using 165/70R14 which was the entry level tyre size on the VW Polo MK4.
I usually fit good all-season tyres, so the below examples are used to illustrate these particular tyre sizes and not a recommendation for summer tyres to be used all year round due to their reduced winter performance when the temperature drops below about 7 degrees Centigrade.
Uniroyal RainSport 5 185/55R15 82H (Euro label C A 70dB)
Uniroyal Tyres / Car / Uniroyal RainSport 5 185/55 R15 82H TL Fuel Eff.: C Wet Grip: A NoiseClass: B Noise: 70dB Car Tyres - MPV Tyres - People Carrier Tyres - 15" R15" - 185/55/15, 185/55R15
Buy online cheap Uniroyal Tyres / Car / Uniroyal RainSport 5 185/55 R15 82H TL Fuel Eff.: C Wet Grip: A NoiseClass: B Noise: 70dB
www.camskill.co.uk
Uniroyal RainExpert 5 175/65R14 82T (Euro label C A 70dB)
Uniroyal Tyres / Car / Uniroyal RainExpert 5 175/65 R14 82T TL Fuel Eff.: C Wet Grip: A NoiseClass: B Noise: 70dB Car Tyres - MPV Tyres - People Carrier Tyres - 14" R14" - 175/65/14, 175/65R14
Buy online cheap Uniroyal Tyres / Car / Uniroyal RainExpert 5 175/65 R14 82T TL Fuel Eff.: C Wet Grip: A NoiseClass: B Noise: 70dB
www.camskill.co.uk
Uniroyal RainExpert 5 185/65R14 82T (Euro label C A 70dB)
Uniroyal RainExpert 5 185/65 R14 T tyres | Blackcircles.com
Buy tyres online and get them fitted locally with Blackcircles. Lifetime Guarantee now on all car, van & SUV tyres. Peace of mind, at no extra cost.
www.blackcircles.com
Uniroyal RainExpert 5 195/65R14 89T (Euro label C A 71dB)
Uniroyal Tyres / Car / Uniroyal RainExpert 5 195/65 R14 89T TL Fuel Eff.: C Wet Grip: A NoiseClass: B Noise: 71dB Car Tyres - MPV Tyres - People Carrier Tyres - 14" R14" - 195/65/14, 195/65R14
Buy online cheap Uniroyal Tyres / Car / Uniroyal RainExpert 5 195/65 R14 89T TL Fuel Eff.: C Wet Grip: A NoiseClass: B Noise: 71dB
www.camskill.co.uk
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Cameron Waters
Member
312mm, I believe you can get 288mm Fabia VRs discs and calipers under Pepperpots but no bigger. You’ll need Fabia hubs too…