Handbrake on Audi A2 1.2Tdi

John L

John L

A2OC Donor
Hi,

I have just bought an Audi A2 1.2Tdi (2002 model) and prior to purchase I had an inspection done on it.
The inspection found that the front right wheel bearing needed to be changed and that the handbrake was not to MOT standard.
I have put the car into my local dealer and prior to inspection they are suggesting that the fix for a loose/non functional handbrake is to change the cables, rear break pads and actuatator. The foot brake works well and meets all the requirements.
Should fixing the handbrake require so much equipment to be changed even when the main brake is functional?
Would it be worth trying to get some WD-40 or such into the self-adjustment mechanism or tightening the handbrake adjustment nut?
It seems that the dealer is keener on selling parts than inspecting the car and also they claimed that replacing the whole rear brake system, handbrake cable and such was commonly required on the A2. He was insistant that they must investigate fully and not simply try the adjustment nut in spite of the brakes working fully and the prepurchase VAGCOM scan showing no stored or current errors.
In this town there are at most 10 A2's and so his experience seems questionable...

Does anybody have any ideas/advice?

John
 
I'd say it's likely the cable has stretched, possibly likely the rear drum shoes need replacing too but the first and simplest thing to do would be to adjust the cable?
 
Thanks...
They just seem unwilling to try to adjust the cable.
I have also not personally tried the car on the road and so have no idea how marginal the handbreak failure is. The seller insisted that the car held fine on the road.
Also in Norway the MOT is biannual and not due until next summer and also the car had a full service 6000km ago so I am not overly keen to have everything replaced if it "works" enough to hold the car.
Would the shoes be adequate to pass a test of the foot break and give no warnings but still be inadequate for the handbrake after 6000km?
How much stretch can be taken from the cable by tightening the adjustment before it is a problem?
Also would you suggest try to clean the self adjustment system and if so how?

Sorry if the questions seem stupid... I just did not imagine such a simple issue should take so much work.

For interest does anyone have an idea of how much changing the shoes and cable costs in the UK? Here is is 9798kr or £1053 to change the cable including pumps and brakeshoes which seems outrageous considering that it does not appear to be a huge job.

John
John
 
To be honest that sounds like daylight robbery for that work!

You can take up quite a lot of slack in the cable by tightening the adjustment, but ultimately if the cable is shot, it'll need replacing eventually.
 
I just checked and the cable was £20ish in the UK, the shoes and the rest less than £100 more.
That is why I sought advice. With a serving manual it should be possible to do myself if necessary I guess.
I have told them to change the front wheel bearing and put the summer tyres on and I'll take it from there.
The bearing was 3278kr or around £350 which seems ok and also this is a job I am not so confident to do.

I guess if I get the parts I can task a local workshop to change the cable or simply to hoist the car so I can work.

Is it worth trying to clean the self-adjustment system or is it uncommon for this to stick?

John
 
Wheel bearing is around £105 from main dealer or genuine Audi one off ebay around £65 having just bought one.

The hand brake adjustment is behind the hand brake lever under the rear ashtray, just pull it up and use the spanner in the tool kit in the boot to tighten the slack but ideally you need to have the rear wheels off the ground to ensure they don't bind too much when you adjust it.

Will probably need new cables and possibly new brake shoes to do the job properly but if you don't over adjust it you might be ok for a while and my advise would be to find yourself a different mechanic/garage as they sound complete rip-off merchants!!
 
Thanks for the advice....
I think for anything big I may have to drive to Finland or Sweden.
The perils of living in Norway but on the plus side the roads are empty and the scenary good once the car is working...
How many turns/fractions of a turn is a reasonable amount to tighten?
Is the cable horribly time consuming to change or a fairly simple process?
If there is not much grip is there any harm in releasing the handbrake and tightening the nut whilst not under tension as would be done after a brake change?

Also are the parts likely to be small and light enough to send from the UK to Norway?

John
 
it's prob not the cable adjustment, the auto adjuster for the rear shoes does not work very well,so the shoes get further away from the drum, hence the handbrake gets worse, you can easily adjust them manualy by taking the drum off. not easy to describe what you have to do on here, but a competent fitter should have no problem. The lining wear could be checked at the same time
 
A common issue is that the pivot mechanism on the handbrake cable corrodes and seizes. This in turn leads to stretched cables and although the brakes do work, efficiency is not up to standard. Very little brake force goes to the rear brakes but a well sorted rear brake system, particularly drum, will definitely be felt when braking. Perhaps ask them to hoist the car and be present for a visual inspection before authorising any work.

blue skies
tony
 
So can the pivot and cable be changed without needing new shoes and such? Is the cable and pivot a job that can be done easily?
At a guess the pivot must be somewhat like that used on a bicycle?
 
Guys: this is a 1.2.

Things are different in 3l-land.

Point 1: be really, really careful, as the handbrake is a "known issue" as the pads appear to run very, very close to the drum, meaning that adjustment is extremely difficult. It's also strongly recommended to change the complete setup at the back - at least by dealers - as the drums are also from aluminium and therefore soft --> replacing the shoes only may break the drum completely.

Big discussion - including suggestions on how to change the drums to those from a Lupo - here: http://www.a2-freun.de/forum/showthread.php?t=36225 (sorry, German, but I can help to translate if you need it) - and there are several links which are interesting. Other searches over there will doubtless bring more up. The wiki also has a few pics which might help understanding: http://www.a2-freun.de/wiki/index.php/Trommelbremsenumbau_A2_1.2

Attempting to change a wheel bearing without the correct tools is foolish at best - there's a specific tool to push the bearing back in IIRC and it's expensive -and without it, you're extremely likely to break something. It also makes the job much easier, ot at least that's the information I have.

- Bret
 
A2 1.2 Rear brake issues:

IMG_0523.jpgIMG_0524.jpgIMG_0515.jpgIMG_0517.jpgIMG_0516.jpgHad my 1.2 TDI since 2002 now 167,000miles.

Last 5 years have had to replace rear brakes 5 times! One set only lasted around 7000 miles before no handbrake at all! Have changed all handbrake cables (they do not stretch as badly as Peugeot 308 ones), both hydraulic lines and actuators, but shoes all original vehicles with 180mm drums (option code 1KR) 6E0698525 1.2 TDi only. Lupo £l ones will fit but do not use other 180mm Lupo/Polo ones. The German forums recommend Part No: 6E0698520 which has a harder compound than the originals fitted to the Audi A2 1.2TDI.

The Drum is an aluminium metal matrix with a treated, very hard inner surface. Some have tried to replace these with steel/std Lupo items with limited success.

EBC brakes now do a set for the 3L/A2 1.2 TDI which I had fitted by Audi yesterday.

http://www.ebc-brakes-uk.co.uk/car-brake-pads-shoes/variant.php?vid=556

I may ask them to make a set with Yellow stuff (harder compound) in the future.

We shall see!
 
Thanks guys!
I will take the system apart tomorrow to look and see what state everything is in.
While the wheelbearing was changed the dealer suggested changing just the rear brake shoes. The had a look at them so hopefully the drum is ok.
Is there any rhyme or reason to which of the A2 1.2Tdi's have the 1KR or 1KB brake shoes? As far as I can tell the KB is wider.

The adjustment cable was loose to the point of almost coming up out of its holder when tightening. I just hope I did not overtighten to the point of damaging the drum.

John
 
bretti_kivi said:
Guys: this is a 1.2.

Things are different in 3l-land.

Point 1: be really, really careful, as the handbrake is a "known issue" as the pads appear to run very, very close to the drum, meaning that adjustment is extremely difficult. It's also strongly recommended to change the complete setup at the back - at least by dealers - as the drums are also from aluminium and therefore soft --> replacing the shoes only may break the drum completely.

Big discussion - including suggestions on how to change the drums to those from a Lupo - here: http://www.a2-freun.de/forum/showthread.php?t=36225 (sorry, German, but I can help to translate if you need it) - and there are several links which are interesting. Other searches over there will doubtless bring more up. The wiki also has a few pics which might help understanding: http://www.a2-freun.de/wiki/index.php/Trommelbremsenumbau_A2_1.2

Do you have a copy og the WIKI as the Wiki area on the German site seems to be down. The Lupo idea looks quite interesting....

John
Click to expand...
 
sorry, no... well, actually, I do, but I can't get the damned thing to work properly after the move :(

Will try again tonight, let's see what happens.

- Bret
 
I took the car to a local mechanic today and opened the rear drums. The brakeshoes were shiny and the brake cylinders were fairly useless.
This was a surprise as the pre-purchase technical inspection suggested the brakes worked but that the handbrake did not.
Also the rear shock absorbers were also in a far worse state than suggested.

Out of interest does anyone know when Audi changed the screw holding the drum on from a Philips screw to a Torx head? This would indicate how long it has been since some work was done.

The drum was within tolerances and so will be used with new shoes. The drum itself was lightly worn but had a slightly deeper wear to one side where the shoe appears to have a slight twist.

It was amazing to see just how bad the buyers report was...

I am looking forward to seeing how much braking is improved and how much better the ride is once the work is done!
 
Mintex also supply rear brake shoes for the 1.2tdi although they don't seem to know it! Same as for a Lupo 1.0 petrol, part no. is MFR175 and about half the price of EBC (and about 1/6 of OE!).

RAB
 
I had a lot of problems with the handbrake not passing the 'MOT'. The cable was said to be too long.
After changing them, no hand braking at all. 0% efficiency despite the lever being much lower fully pulled !

I was really wonder what was wrong because the pads/drums were looking OK.
"steveb" is 100% correct, the auto adjuster for the rear shoes does not work very well.
In fact the "auto" mechanism is complete crap as it age.

The solution for me was, once drum removed, to hammer down that small adjuster key (easy to find, it's pull by the only vertical spring) step by step, until you barely can put back the drum and turn it.
Then miracle, handbrake works now perfectly, to the point the new cables seems to have shortened by big margin.

I am 99% sure the cables did not had to be changed.
Save time & money, start by hammering down that adjuster !!

Bonus, the braking power and pedal feeling is improved too (confirming the adjusters are lazy from a long time).
 
Last edited:
In my experience, the cables don't stretch but the springs at the wheel end get weaker with age, which has the same effect as cables stretching. If the wedge doesn't self adjust, is it the wrong way around - there's a nipple at the top that should face outward? If you fit it the wrong way around it won't work!

Also there are only two suitable brake shoes, Zimmermann 10990.152.3 and VW/Audi 6E0 698 520X (actually made by Pagid but only available from VW/Audi). About £40 and £60 respectively but the Pagid set comes with everything except the cables. Don't waste your money on anything else as they'll be too soft!

RAB
 
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