Steel is also recyclable. But yes, and is there one thing you must recycle at home, it is exactly aluminium, forget the rest.
How green are electric cars
- Thread starter Evoman
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Steel is also recyclable. But yes, and is there one thing you must recycle at home, it is exactly aluminium, forget the rest.
Indeed, in the main but not infinite.
You cannot always recycle to the lower grade.
Aluminium is infinite...You can make it back into the same grade with the same properties (or different) for ever.
There is limitations to steel
It does not make it greener the fact that I have 'tried one'
Try and do 500 miles mainly on motorways in one day and you will run back to ICE..
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This is fun...I hope you all agree..
So where do we get the Electricity from?
Green?
The EV vehicle itself is not green. Either in its production, use (if not run off solar or wind power) and for sure its recyclability as of today is not viable compared today with IC Aluminium bodied vehicles.
Where has Toyota stated it has abandoned Hydrogen?
As I say gents, a good conversation...
So where do we get the Electricity from?
Green?
The EV vehicle itself is not green. Either in its production, use (if not run off solar or wind power) and for sure its recyclability as of today is not viable compared today with IC Aluminium bodied vehicles.
Where has Toyota stated it has abandoned Hydrogen?
As I say gents, a good conversation...
cheechy
A2OC Donor
I travelled 1700 miles in my model 3 last week and I'd do it again. First journey was from Fife to Torquay in one day. Imo took no longer than ice unless you don't like to eat or go to the toilet in an 8 hour journeyIt does not make it greener the fact that I have 'tried one'
Try and do 500 miles mainly on motorways in one day and you will run back to ICE..
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Ladies and gentlemen I think healthy debate is good but and I understand we all have biases as we are all human. However I think the concept of Life Cycle Analysis has not been fully understood from the article I referenced. And do note this is not an article written by a party with vested interests, it has been produced by Green NCAP as an independent impartial body.
@cheechy you say nobody mentions the cost of bringing oil out of the ground, transporting, refining and more transportation etc. That is exactly what is included in the LCA process hence a complete picture of the 'carbon cost' from cradle to grave to allow comparison of the different options for personal transportation. Hence also evaluating the similar 'front end' processing and mining and transportation as well as the end of life disposal 'carbon cost' that are involved in manufacturing batteries for EVs. Similarly applied for ICE vehicles This comparison was ICE and EV only however, nitrogen powered vehicles were not part of the study.
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ds20prefecture
Member
I’m not sure its fun to be honest. It feels very Covid-era Trump in the debating style.
No vehicle is “green”. Greenhouse gasses are produced in the manufacture of push bikes. But relatively speaking all evidence clearly shows that over full life cycle EVs are much cleaner and will continue to become greener as they age and the grid becomes cleaner.
EVs are no less recyclable than ice cars. Batteries for example very very recyclable, with the recycled battery capable of out performing the original mined material
I am impressed...how long did it take you?
cheechy
A2OC Donor
I didn't time it tbh but looking back no more than around 10 hours maybe? Had to stop a few times as we had 2 dogs with us - where we could we timed it with half hour charges (2 required), and i think another couple of shorter stops.
As long as you pay attention to the car and plan your route there's nothing complicated or anxious about it - I found it very easy along with the car's "dog mode" enabling us to safely leave the dogs in the car for short periods of time.
4markowen
A2OC Donor
There's the energy taken to manufacture a car, ideally we should all have fewer or smaller cars anyway (A2 ftw!), and yes it takes more to produce an EV up front, but as the grid production is cleaned up, so is that manufacturing process, including for ICE cars.
The trouble is after that though. Once you get it into your head that burning stuff to move about is ridiculous, you're then kind of on board with the whole EV thing.
Over 100k miles, your EV will get cleaner as cleaner energy is used to power it.
Over the same 100k miles your ICE car will need oil to be extracted, and keep being extracted, shipped, refined, shipped, pumped, and then for what? finally being burnt, most of which goes into heat and noise, and throws carbon dioxide and nitrogen dioxide out the back.
I've no problem if ICE cars go the way of horses and become an expensive hobby you wear tight trousers, funny boots, and a helmet for but the day to day journeys, the billons of miles undertaken to the shops or school run should be clean. And likewise with horses, we get rid of the piles of s**t left behind, although in this case air pollution. With the added bonus of defunding authoritarian petrostates.
The trouble is after that though. Once you get it into your head that burning stuff to move about is ridiculous, you're then kind of on board with the whole EV thing.
Over 100k miles, your EV will get cleaner as cleaner energy is used to power it.
Over the same 100k miles your ICE car will need oil to be extracted, and keep being extracted, shipped, refined, shipped, pumped, and then for what? finally being burnt, most of which goes into heat and noise, and throws carbon dioxide and nitrogen dioxide out the back.
I've no problem if ICE cars go the way of horses and become an expensive hobby you wear tight trousers, funny boots, and a helmet for but the day to day journeys, the billons of miles undertaken to the shops or school run should be clean. And likewise with horses, we get rid of the piles of s**t left behind, although in this case air pollution. With the added bonus of defunding authoritarian petrostates.
There's never any mention of recharging electric cars from a solar source? Why is that? There's lots of sun here, at the moment and I only occasionally use my car. ideal, then, for it to be being charged for free! I've been reading about the Citroen Ami EV .... ~ £7000 and with a range of about 45 miles. Ideal for my week to week use. (They will probably introduce a greater range model as well ) I've thought that it's probably better to purchase a used Nissan Leaf with the higher power battery system (30Kwh) I do like the idea of driving somewhere for no fuel cost whatsoever! At the moment my fuel costs are as low as they can be, with LPG being the fuel used.
David
David
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Guest 4123
Guest
Nothing to stop you doing so but you will only be able to charge at 5 to 6 amps, depending on your system. VW did have a intended domestic charger that would have had an option to charge from solar only but seems to have disappeared. So manual control only.
Gridserve use solar panels:
GRIDSERVE | Energy
By generating zero carbon energy with large scale hybrid solar + battery farms, then storing it safely, we build up a massive supply of clean energy to support the grid when the sun goes down.
www.gridserve.com
That's a statement that's clearly not based on experience!
RAB
Rab.Nothing to stop you doing so but you will only be able to charge at 5 to 6 amps, depending on your system. VW did have a intended domestic charger that would have had an option to charge from solar only but seems to have disappeared. So manual control only.
Gridserve use solar panels:
GRIDSERVE | Energy
By generating zero carbon energy with large scale hybrid solar + battery farms, then storing it safely, we build up a massive supply of clean energy to support the grid when the sun goes down.
That's a statement that's clearly not based on experience!
RAB
I think you will find you are mistaken regarding experience.
However, no worries.
ds20prefecture
Member
Whats interesting in the article's source Green NCAP are the figures used for energy. The ID.3 they choose a 23% renewable energy whereas for the Fiat 500e it's 25%. Presumably they are choosing the renewable energy mix in the country of manufacture. So over 16 years of electricity use from a 23% renewable grid, I'm sure the EV is only marginally "greener" than a diesel car. But that figure seems entirely arbitrary.
Whats off is that Germanys figure is over 50% clean for electricity production and the EU 27 average is about 66%
Even Ireland, historically a laggard in renewables, was over 40% last year.
ds20prefecture
Member
not meaning to nit-pick but home chargers are up to 7KW charge rate typically (about 30 amps@220V) single phase. 3 phase can go to 22kW, but the car needs to support that and most dont. And most houses dont (but farms do!)
There's a number of solar aware chargers on the market. I use the myEnergi Zappi and it will use what ever excess production i have (i.e. after the house demand is met, all the hot water is heated and the home battery charged) to charge the ID. Most I can get directly off solar is 5KW. That'll charge the car from empty to 80% full in 9 hours. But the car is never fully empty so in reality it's much less than that. I can also time the charge for off peak to lower my costs and demand on the grid.
Mostly my car is charged from solar and i've chosen a renewable energy tariff (marginally higher cost but that's how we change things)
The car's manufacture is allegedly carbon neutral (https://www.irishtimes.com/special-...laims-to-be-carbon-neutral-at-birth-1.4205759)
Of course it's not green - but at least the pollution is confined to generation and manufacture and not distributed through the tailpipe. The manufacture is as green as I could find and the generation will only get greener.
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Guest 4123
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Guest 4123
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From the report itself:
"It might seem obvious to say that when more of your electricity comes from renewable sources, the greener an electric car becomes - but the difference really is staggering.
Taking the Volkswagen ID.3 electric car as an example (pictured above), Green NCAP found that if you are driving and charging this car in Sweden - the country with the highest share of electricity from renewables - the GHG required to generate the electricity is so low that it is substantially lower than all forms of combustion car.
Whereas in Poland, which in Green NCAP’s study has the highest amount of electricity generated from burning coal, an electric vehicle will actually have higher life cycle GHG emissions than a petrol or diesel car, making it much worse for the environment.
As a hypothetical, Green NCAP also points out in its study that should electricity come from purely renewable sources, the electricity required to keep the ID.3 driving for 150,000 miles would be so small, the total greenhouse gasses over the vehicle’s lifetime would be half that of a non-electric car."
RAB