How green are electric cars

[the grim reeper]

Easily done and I'd never choose ICE over EV for long trips now. Yes, I have a Tesla (base model 3) and I have my trusty old A2 (1 owner from new, me!) and travelling anywhere in the UK, I have absolutely no range anxiety, none at all. The Supercharger infrastructure put in place by Tesla is such that I know that I'll never have to wait more than around 20 mins to charge up again, so about the time it takes to stretch your legs and have a loo break.
And, the cost per mile for fuel is far far less in the EV than in the A2, despite it being one of the most economical cars on the road, even with the recent hike in electricity costs.
Trying an EV is not enough, you need to live with one for a month or two and you'll soon see that all this cr4p being put out there by the media is absolute nonsense.
Maintenance wise, there's nothing to do on the Tesla, other than the usual wear and tear items (tyres, shocks etc) and it's the only car I've ever bought where the manufacturer hasn't tried to sell me a maintenance package. The legacy manufacturers still do this for their EV models, but with only one moving part, there's not much they can do in the workshop.

The trouble with much of the mainstream press in their bashing of EVs is that they're ignoring the new disruptors in the market and focussing on the old brands and their 'new' EV offerings. These are pitiful in almost all areas: economy, range, speed, acceleration, cost, reliability, charging etc

So no, I'll never run back to dino-juice cars. Ever.

HI Mike

Its nice that you can afford a Tesla and have somewhere to charge this up over night. (Not all EV's have the same charge options), If i would have swapped to an EV when i sold my A2. I wouldn't have been able to charge it overnight as i Sold our home and moved into a rental Terraced house on a very busy street and idiot parkers, so over the 8 months i was in this property i was only ever parked in front of the house probably a total of 1 month. But even that i wouldn't have been able to charge it up with out trailing an extension lead across the footpath (which i think is illegal) if not its not very safe. I'm not sure when i'll be in a position financially to make that swap to a workable EV for me. EV's are coming but it will be awhile before i have no other option other than to get one.

Phil

 

[DJ 190]

The problem with any electric car is the high cash outlay to become an owner. (That's referring to a new EV) Like ~£50,000 for a Tesla and £30,000 + for most decent others. That's a lot of capital. O.K., the vehicle is still an asset and has value which can be realised. So you're driving along on electric with a smug smile, knowing the savings made against petrol/diesel fuel, but it sure has cost to be in that position. What I've always tried to do is to think how be in that same position (EV ownership) but without that huge outlay, I recon that around 100-120 miles range would be quite useful. The ideal car is a 2017 Yr Nissan Leaf with a 30kWh battery. (There's one on Ebay for ~ £9000) Another way is an earlier Nissan Leaf and to replace/upgrade the batteries for a higher capacity set. (How to do this is on U-tube) I think that it can also be done by a Firm for about £5000. Anyway, I would think that EV ownership is possible for around £10k .... There's another way and that's the conversion of my redundant A2 to electric, but I'd still have that inferior ride quality.

David

 

[Skipton01]

I get that not everybody has the ability to charge from home and this is going to be a widespread issue until things like lamp post chargers are widely rolled out. In the meantime, fast charge points are the way forward for this section of the current or potential future EV owner. So, with Tesla for instance, drive to a Supercharger, plug in, wait 20 mins to full, then drive home with 250+ miles range left which will cover the majority of weekly commutes.
The trouble with fast charging is that all the legacy manufacturers have produced cars but not produced their own charging solution, they rely on third parties to maintain infrastructure. This is another area where Tesla has been ahead of the game and now, they're opening up their network to non-Tesla owners, but will charge a small premium to such cars. Also, the likes of EQ and e-tron drivers will soon get the hang of idle fines when they're charged £1 per minute that they're hogging a charger when their car is fully charged!

Teslas get a bad rap from a lot of people, the press inspires this mainly. You say it's nice that I can afford one and have somewhere to charge it. Well, the having somewhere to charge is a non-starter as a barrier to ownership as I've said above and the actual cost is comparable to a mid-tier A3 or similar - once you factor in reduced running costs. I've actually leased mine, so I've not bought one - the EV market is moving too fast at the moment to consider outright purchase, although seems the price of a year old Model 3 is actually more than what mine was brand new - ie they're actually appreciating in price, not depreciating.

The vast majority of Teslas on the road will be leased I think - they make so much sense as company cars too. I get it that not everyone can afford a new car either - however someone has to buy new cars to then make the second-hand market a possibility. Make no mistake though, with soaring fossil fuel prices, EV ownership as a priority will be sooner than many think.

 

[Guest 4123]

The trouble with fast charging is that all the legacy manufacturers have produced cars but not produced their own charging solution, they rely on third parties to maintain infrastructure. This is another area where Tesla has been ahead of the game and now, they're opening up their network to non-Tesla owners, but will charge a small premium to such cars.

IONITY - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"Ionity is a high-power charging station network for electric vehicles to facilitate long-distance travel across Europe.[1] It's a joint venture founded by the BMW Group, Daimler AG, Ford Motor Company and Volkswagen Group, but other automotive manufacturers are invited to help expand the network.[2] In November 2020 Hyundai Motor Group entered Ionity as the 5th shareholder.

RAB

 

[4markowen]

The vast majority of Teslas on the road will be leased I think - they make so much sense as company cars too. I get it that not everyone can afford a new car either - however someone has to buy new cars to then make the second-hand market a possibility. Make no mistake though, with soaring fossil fuel prices, EV ownership as a priority will be sooner than many think.

I've heard that Tesla aren't allowing folks the option to purchase at the end of a lease due to the high demand and second hand prices.

The charging infrastructure is still early days and with a long way to go. Tesla's supercharger network is the benchmark where the car knows where and what's available and you simply plug in, although more likely is the contactless route of just tapping a bank card. That should see you recognised and pick up any memberships you have though.

When does Nectar Points get involved though?

 

[mtl]

I have had eGolf on test and I loved it.
But since I do not live in a house, I had a problem with charging it. I almost got stranded, because a charger was not working.
Btw: charging on Ionity costs more than using a comparable ICE car.
Also one other factor: here last year during vacation season there were a lot of EVs waiting on fast chargers to be charged. This year it is expected to be even more problematic. Also on Tesla Superchargers. And with number of EVs on the road, this will get even worse.
Though, I really, really loved the eGolf. Now we have Auris Hybrid as a second car and I get annoyed with engine noise from my Octavia in the city driving, especially when stopped. I do like EV driving, but…

 

[Guest 4123]

Btw: charging on Ionity costs more than using a comparable ICE car.

With the right plan, charging with Ionity can be as little as £0.28 per kwh.

We Charge | VW Charging Stations | Volkswagen UK

We Charge makes charging easy with your connected wall box, the ID. ID. Charger Connect and ID. Charger Pro. In future, you’ll keep track of charging sessions in the app and manage them using your smartphone, share your wallbox with others and take advantage of smart functions such as remote...

www.volkswagen.co.uk

RAB

 

[quantumtokoloshi]

Classic Cars Less Harmful To The Environment Than EVs, Study Finds​

x

 

[sunsurfer]

There's never any mention of recharging electric cars from a solar source? Why is that? There's lots of sun here, at the moment and I only occasionally use my car. ideal, then, for it to be being charged for free! I've been reading about the Citroen Ami EV .... ~ £7000 and with a range of about 45 miles. Ideal for my week to week use. (They will probably introduce a greater range model as well ) I've thought that it's probably better to purchase a used Nissan Leaf with the higher power battery system (30Kwh) I do like the idea of driving somewhere for no fuel cost whatsoever! At the moment my fuel costs are as low as they can be, with LPG being the fuel used.

David

At 3am wind turbines at sea and onshore are regularly generating at capacity with low demand. Charge your car at night on a green tariff and it is likely to be wind and nuclear with little carbon dioxide cost.

 

[Guest 4123]

Classic Cars Less Harmful To The Environment Than EVs, Study Finds​

x

To quote a comment from the article:

"What a stupid article. Gee, a car not driven has a smaller ecological footprint than one that is!
Why not say that a coal fired power plant that'd decommissioned has a lower footprint than a running solar plant to somehow imply that coal fired power plants are good for the environment.
The fact that this was even published shows how far comprehension has declined in the average person."

RAB

 

[Skipton01]

Ionity is fine, but why do such huge legacy manufacturers such as BMW, Mercedes, VW and Ford not have the ability to do anything as good as, or on the same scale as a small and new company such as Tesla? Design by committee and you'll have so many issues when struggling every partner on the committee to agree.

They're happy to fleece your bank account for the car, but can't help when it comes to providing electric to run the thing. And with no idle fee, the Ionity network will continue to suffer bottlenecks with EVs hogging chargers when they're full, which denies other EVs the ability to charge. Ever wondered why Tesla Superchargers are available, despite there being loads of Teslas around now? It's because we get charged £1 per minute we leave a car attached and blocking a bay when we're fully charged.

Ionity currently has 22 stations in the UK. Tesla has 650 Superchargers by comparison, ok so that's individual chargers as opposed to sites, but it's still many more. If you look at EU, Ionity has said it hopes to have 7000 chargers by 2025. Tesla currently has in excess of 6000 in 2022. If the big manufacturers are serious, they need to show it.

 

[Skipton01]

I've heard that Tesla aren't allowing folks the option to purchase at the end of a lease due to the high demand and second hand prices.

The charging infrastructure is still early days and with a long way to go. Tesla's supercharger network is the benchmark where the car knows where and what's available and you simply plug in, although more likely is the contactless route of just tapping a bank card. That should see you recognised and pick up any memberships you have though.

When does Nectar Points get involved though?

Nope - no option to buy, but then that's what a lease it all about. Option to buy after a period of 'rental' is more like a PCP deal.

With Superchargers, you don't need to flash any sort of card - just create a Tesla account and then the charger knows what car is attached when it handshakes, then you get billed automatically. It really is fantastic. You don't even have to open your socket cover on the car - when you bring the charger plug near, it opens automatically.

 

[maxufeiss]

Classic Cars Less Harmful To The Environment Than EVs, Study Finds

Well, it can be true if you really stretch it conditionally.
City dweller living in apartment located in walkable neighborhood owning an Hummer H1 and rarely using it, is environmentalist compared to country dweller with a electric car owning a large house far from places they need to go often. Like work, shopping etc.

But usually people with classic cars own multiple cars and do not live in a place that screams "here live them green people".

 

[4markowen]

It's not so much a committee and that we're more in the VHS vs Betamax stage of EV charging

And what's worse some (Tesla) are like Netflix and others (any charger demanding an 'app' or membership or pretty much any interaction other than pugging in and maybe tapping a contactless credit or debit card) are still Blockbuster in how you get that juice.

Still, can't be worse than the UK government wanting an 'iconic' design and the plug not actually fitting some cars.

 

[Guest 4123]

And with no idle fee, the Ionity network will continue to suffer bottlenecks with EVs hogging chargers when they're full, which denies other EVs the ability to charge. Ever wondered why Tesla Superchargers are available, despite there being loads of Teslas around now? It's because we get charged £1 per minute we leave a car attached and blocking a bay when we're fully charged.

You didn't read the link did you! It's called a blocking charge.

RAB

 

[Skipton01]

Which link? Your Wiki link? Yep - and there's no mention of blocking in it.

Ionity's own webpage mentions nothing about blocking or idle fees either. The only result thrown up for blocking is about chargers being ICE'd.

So snappy.

 

[Skipton01]

It's not so much a committee and that we're more in the VHS vs Betamax stage of EV charging

And what's worse some (Tesla) are like Netflix and others (any charger demanding an 'app' or membership or pretty much any interaction other than pugging in and maybe tapping a contactless credit or debit card) are still Blockbuster in how you get that juice.

Still, can't be worse than the UK government wanting an 'iconic' design and the plug not actually fitting some cars.

The UK government wanting to re-invent the charging plug/socket is ridiculous. They aren't going to insist on USB C for iPhones (when even Apple have moved to USB for everything they make apart from phones and headphones), so they're promoting waste.

We've been through the Betamax vs VHS debate already - CHAdeMO and CCS. CCS has largely won out and there's also the combined version too, but for all intents and purposes, CHAdeMO is dead and buried.

 

[Guest 4123]

Which link? Your Wiki link? Yep - and there's no mention of blocking in it.

We Charge | VW Charging Stations | Volkswagen UK

We Charge makes charging easy with your connected wall box, the ID. ID. Charger Connect and ID. Charger Pro. In future, you’ll keep track of charging sessions in the app and manage them using your smartphone, share your wallbox with others and take advantage of smart functions such as remote...

www.volkswagen.co.uk

RAB

 

[Skipton01]

Oh, your link to the VW scheme, passing other network chargers off as their own? No, of course I didn't read that, I thought you were still on about the Ionity effort.

However, having read the link, it's typically overcomplicated VW rubbish. Why have 3 levels of membership, with 3 different pricing structures? Tesla has 1. What use is a 5 pence per minute blocking charge in deterring bay-blocking? Why suspend blocking fees for half the day? All this does is encourage drivers to sit on chargers all night long. Absolute drivel and until all this needless complexity and bamboozling is removed, it'll just turn drivers and potential EV owners away.

 

[Guest 4123]

Oh, your link to the VW scheme, passing other network chargers off as their own?

As opposed to Tesla chargers where only Teslas can charge? In France (or Europe) I only need a single Chargemap card which includes many networks, including Ionity.

RAB