Increasing clearance

WallK

Member
Hello! I want to add some height to my 3L.

Roads condition is just horrible here and I often scratch my underside with sticking out things.
I've installed heavy iron undercarriage protection thing and it's already scratched and bent in the middle.

As winter approaches I started my quest to find longer springs, as it seems as logical approach.
I have a friend with 1.2 too, we installed Fabia's springs on it (as russian guys suggest in their forums). But it is just too much.
Clearance got around 5-6cm bigger, but car feels like a cotton candy now.
It's alright to lose some maneuverability, but just some! :)

I'm looking for a new springs that will add somewhere around 3-4cm clearance and only threads I was able to find here was about LOWERING A2s. Oh, how jealous I am.
Do you have any suggestions?

Thank you!
 
this will be hard, very hard. The 1.2 doesn't use the standard springs and so it's hard. You might find some parts from Weitec for the Polo which are essentially extended spring seats.

- Bret
 
Do you have the tallest tyres possible?
I'm in the process of getting new 195/80 for summer, but I've got almost new 185/65 winter tyres, I'll stick to those for this season.


this will be hard, very hard. The 1.2 doesn't use the standard springs and so it's hard. You might find some parts from Weitec for the Polo which are essentially extended spring seats.

- Bret
But Fabia's springs fit! I hope that I'll find a car that uses middle ground option between stock ones and Skoda's.

I need to change springs anyway, so I'm not sure new stocks and those extenders are a good idea.


______________

I was thinking about getting suspension from A2s with bigger motors, but I can only find one variant of rear springs. I don't want my headlight be higher than taillights :)
 
It should be possible to work it out from my spreadsheet on spring rates / heights (front / rear) - if you have the details of the model of spring you currently have as well as the Fabia spring that you tried so that I can try to work out where they would go on the table and we can sort it out from there.
 
It should be possible to work it out from my spreadsheet on spring rates / heights (front / rear) - if you have the details of the model of spring you currently have as well as the Fabia spring that you tried so that I can try to work out where they would go on the table and we can sort it out from there.
Great idea, thank you! I'll work my way through it with what is available in my market
 
Hi WallK - the ideal measurements are the ones that are often shown on the online parts supply places. If you have :

1) spring wire thickness (mm)
2) spring external diameter (mm)
3) spring height (mm)

to give an idea of the standard range (the measurements are sometimes erratic and only about half of the suppliers list them)

A2 1.2 front springs I've identified so far are 10.9-11.5mm wire thickness, 135-138mm external diameter at widest point, 293-345mm height. I am not on the computer where I have the spreadsheet calculator for relative spring rate comparison with other springs but these are the starting points.

When we have your A2 & Fabia springs then I can add these into the spreadsheet for comparison. My original spreadsheet didn't have the 1.2tdi springs because they were different from the 1.4i / 1.4tdi / 1.6 versions I was interested in for my own cars - the rear spring spreadsheet does contain these. I also have an additional list that I didn't upload the first time that contained various PQ25-like-chassis Fabia / Polo / Roomster springs for comparison that may help here - much more range in heights / spring rates.

If you search for spring models related to 6Q0411105, it is possible very quickly to find additional springs similar in wire thickness and overall diameter to the above, but with heights 355mm-375mm (various Seat, Skoda, VW models) - some of these may be too extreme for what you are looking for, but it suggests that finding something to suit your requirements may be possible, although the effect on camber might start to be an issue.
 
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I've added the front springs identified as for the 1.2tdi (highlighted green blocks) into the general list of front springs for A2 & other similar VAG vehicles, banded into height ranges with the approximate spring rate (k) calculated. Obviously I'm not an expert, but you can see some that could increase heights by 10-20-30+ mm ranges over the 293 / 330 / 345mm 1.2 springs with similar approximate spring rates. It would be interesting to see how this compares to your originals and the Fabia ones tested thus far.

I've added an extra column to the table attached here yesterday - dividing the approximate spring rate by the height (k/H), although I know that this isn't as good as a rigorous "kg per cm deflection" number. It does reflect difference between minimal ride height sport springs for the heavier models with those around the same height specified for the 3L tdi, or the Suplex 3207 I used on my 1.4i SE versus Tdi-compatible springs that are the same height but more robust.
 

Attachments

  • spring rates(+k over H).pdf
    20.9 KB · Views: 376
Last edited:
I've added the front springs identified as for the 1.2tdi (highlighted green blocks) into the general list of front springs for A2 & other similar VAG vehicles, banded into height ranges with the approximate spring rate (k) calculated. Obviously I'm not an expert, but you can see some that could increase heights by 10-20-30+ mm ranges over the 293 / 330 / 345mm 1.2 springs with similar approximate spring rates. It would be interesting to see how this compares to your originals and the Fabia ones tested thus far.
I've got Kayaba RH 1711 and Kayaba RH 6402 in there now.
Old springs became 290mm in front and 305mm in the back. I don't know neither brand or how old they are...

I can't get the same k number as you did with an online calc (almost the same, but not identical).
Can you share your spreadsheet with calculations? I can't easily copy data from pdf to excell...
 
It's not letting me attach .xls

however, I've been able to find RH1711 from KYB / Kayaba and have added them into the attached table above.

The equation I used is cited here -

https://www.engineersedge.com/spring_comp_calc_k.htm

the modulus of rigidity (G) was taken as a standard value of 30,000,000 - although I can't now remember why.
and based on the few springs that listed the info, I standardised the number of active turns as 5.5 across the board - this could obviously be wrong for the taller springs.
Measurements were converted from mm into inches.
 
It's not letting me attach .xls

however, I've been able to find RH1711 from KYB / Kayaba and have added them into the attached table above.

The equation I used is cited here -

https://www.engineersedge.com/spring_comp_calc_k.htm

the modulus of rigidity (G) was taken as a standard value of 30,000,000 - although I can't now remember why.
and based on the few springs that listed the info, I standardised the number of active turns as 5.5 across the board - this could obviously be wrong for the taller springs.
Measurements were converted from mm into inches.
Oh, I get it! You didn't subtract wire diameter from overall dia. Still, doesn't matter, as we are making direct comparison.
So I'll take similar k and choose something 20mm lower, it should be what I'm looking for!

I pm'd you my email, can you send the spreadsheet there?
 
Going back to your original question and your most recent comment that appeared as I started to type this -

what I've understood is that you had 290mm front springs originally. 354mm KH1711s are nearly 60mm higher - but are now excessively high - which would suggest you're looking for springs in the 330-340mm range, with approximately similar spring rate to the 290mm originals. The Suplex 03207 and Spidan 56830 fit into that category based on the k value and heights criteria. I've been very happy with the Suplex on a 1.4i (no OSS), so whether this or the Spidan would be suitable for your needs is worth considering and will be a very interesting discussion.

If we also were able to add the many suppliers for whom there are no good measurements (ie Bilstein, Monroe) on the same aftermarket supply websites it would give a more complete analysis, but sadly they're not easily available.
 
Going back to your original question -

what I've understood is that you had 290mm front springs originally. 354mm KH1711s are nearly 60mm higher - but are now excessively high - which would suggest you're looking for springs in the 330-340mm range, with approximately similar spring rate to the 290mm originals. The Suplex 03207 and Spidan 56830 fit into that category. I've been very happy with the Suplex on a 1.4i (no OSS), so whether this or the Spidan would be suitable for your needs is worth considering and will be a very interesting discussion.
I'm looking at Metzger 2240999 from your list because I like new KYB's feel. Those are 24mm lower with pretty much similar k factor.
But your experience is a really big factor and softer feel may be desirable too. Thanks!

I have a little problem with rear ones tho. Calculated k factor of RH6402 is waaaaay over range of other springs in the list (334,90 while all other fit in 190-280 range). I'm now not surprised how difficult it was to install those :)
 
Remember that my experience is with the 1.4i and this spreadsheet is just a tool, not an absolute. I've updated the rear spreadsheet to include the rear spring you've fitted - see attachment.
 

Attachments

  • rs+.pdf
    24.8 KB · Views: 394
Remember that my experience is with the 1.4i and this spreadsheet is just a tool, not an absolute. I've updated the rear spreadsheet to include the rear spring you've fitted - see attachment.
So I've got sport suspension on 1.2 haha
I can't really express how grateful I am for your work, thank you very much!
 
yes, it looks like there are two suspension levels for the 1.2 corresponding to about a 30mm difference at front and rear which would tally with those seen for the larger engined cars judging by the springs made available by the aftermarket suppliers. Re compiling these tables - it didn't take long, and it was a question that I eventually realised needed answering when I was looking for advice on springs for my cars that nobody was able to give despite the huge wealth of other expertise available here. As you said earlier - there have been occasional suggestions of lowered / sportier options but choosing from the wide range of notionally "standard" springs available was an unknown quantity. I tried to apply some science to it, and hoped that it may prove useful for someone. These tables can be updated with more data and with the benefit of experience as time goes by.
 
Oh, I forgot to post results!

52679


I did it in winter and totally forgot to post here. I've left Kayaba RH 1711 and Kayaba RH 6402 in place because anything from the lists you kindly provided that are suitable cost not suitable amount of money or are too expensive to ship here :)

There's couple more photos under the spoiler. I don't stop the search tho, my shock absorbers are on the last legs by the feel of it because they are enduring unusual stress (I think). I plan to change spring to something a bit lower together with them.

Thanks again!

52680

52681

52683
 
Oh, I forgot to post results!

View attachment 52679

I did it in winter and totally forgot to post here. I've left Kayaba RH 1711 and Kayaba RH 6402 in place because anything from the lists you kindly provided that are suitable cost not suitable amount of money or are too expensive to ship here :)

There's couple more photos under the spoiler. I don't stop the search tho, my shock absorbers are on the last legs by the feel of it because they are enduring unusual stress (I think). I plan to change spring to something a bit lower together with them.

Thanks again!


Where did you buy the springs? This height would work great on my A2 Dune.
 
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