MK1 Audi TT Opinions?

Rusty911

A2OC Donor
Do 225 always come with quattro and 180 are always fwd?
Both are Quattro, although this is the baby Haldex system rather than the full fat all wheel drive Quattro of the next platform up. Haldex can do as much as 50/50 but most of time runs with very heavy front bias, 90/10 I believe. The full fat can do 20/80 to 80/20, give or take.

The 150 was fwd. Not sure on the 190. EDIT: there are certainly 190's with fwd but don't know if that was all of them.
 
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Pinkythelabrat

A2OC Donor
I do know that my mate’s 180 Quattro mk1 was the ONLY car which made it in and out of his village during some of the snow last winter - much to the chagrin of his neighbours and the amusement of his wife. It seemed to do the job.


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Jeetesh

Member
Title edited to remove '225' reference. There seems to be at least as many 180's out there as 225's and lots seem to be in lovely condition.

I've always liked smaller turbo'd cars for their more linear power delivery and often found that the sweet spot in a range is one down from top. (323i vs 328i, VTR vs VTS etc). Engine gubbins aside, later 180's have the same spec as 225's.

Therefore, given my driving style tends to be pretty steady these days and not too rev happy, I think to put 180's into the mix along with the 225 wouldn't be a terrible thing.
I was a VTR owner once up on a time. Slightly embarrassed to admit that however was more drivable due to the torque delivery. Sold it when it developed a reputation which it never shook off. Fortunately the TT, has the same reputation that it always had and not something you’d be embarrassed to own again. The same goes for A2’s - timeless in my opinion and driving one now gives you more respect the when they first came out.
 

A2Z

Member
Only downside for me aesthetically with the 180 was the lack of twin pipes at the rear.

Loved the symmetry of the 225 and felt the single pipe of the 180 just didn't look right.

Probably my fussy eye being just too fussy! 😁
 

A2Z

Member
I do know that my mate’s 180 Quattro mk1 was the ONLY car which made it in and out of his village during some of the snow last winter - much to the chagrin of his neighbours and the amusement of his wife. It seemed to do the job.


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Agree 4wd is brilliant but 4wd with winter tyres is just incredible!
 

Rusty911

A2OC Donor
I was a VTR owner once up on a time. Slightly embarrassed to admit that however was more drivable due to the torque delivery. Sold it when it developed a reputation which it never shook off. Fortunately the TT, has the same reputation that it always had and not something you’d be embarrassed to own again. The same goes for A2’s - timeless in my opinion and driving one now gives you more respect the when they first came out.
Definitely agree with all.

I used to sell Citroen's when the Saxo came out. I went to UK launch (hosted by Jonathan Ross no less) and each dealership got to take two demonstators away from the NEC there and then. Was an amazing event as such an important car for Citroen at the time. Each Saxo there had a 'SAX' reg number so motorway on home trip was full of 'SAX' Saxo's filled with spotty salemen.

Anyway, I really enjoyed those early Saxo's (as you say, well before 'that' image) but there was little doubt the VTR was the sweeter car for normal driving. Far less cammy, didn't feel any different unless you really liked to rev the VTS through at very high throttle.

If (IF) I did get a TT it would be one of a fleet so not everyday car by any means so all less of issue. Even so, I don't want to throw more than say, £2k at this really if MK1, £2.5k max, £1.5k at other end. I think much more than that and you lose the whole 'cheap bit of fun' thing. Therefore probably sensible to keep the option of a 'lower' (different) spec car there in exchange for condition. I can think of nothing worse than a scruffy, chavved TT.

Talking of image, on a TT forum someone referred to their music as 'choons'. I'm going to take a stab in the dark and say he probably wasn't glued to Classic FM 😀


Only downside for me aesthetically with the 180 was the lack of twin pipes at the rear.

Loved the symmetry of the 225 and felt the single pipe of the 180 just didn't look right.

Probably my fussy eye being just too fussy! 😁
Completely agree: I wonder how many people paid the extra for the 225 as a result?
 

PlasticMac

Member
Worth considering the FWD versions too. Less to go wrong/need fixing, lighter (better power to weight ratio). Look for a late model, end 2005/06, and you get 190 bhp, like my Coupe (163 Roadster). They are quite rare though.
Mac.

The FWDs are ULEZ compliant too (Quattros, excepting the V6, are not) . Could be a significant factor going forward.
 
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Stevieb

Member
I remember that after the Sunday Times report criticising the handling of the MK1 following the accident on the Ayesbury to Wendover Road Audi recalled all the mk1 s and shipped them back to Germany so that a spoiler could be fitted in the factory. This meant arranging loan cars for all the customers and remembering to collect them afterwards. All indications were that it was the drivers fault as he had gone too fast on a long left hand bend, which is well known to locals.
 

PlasticMac

Member
The primary motivation for the recall, that fitted Bosch ESP, as well as the spoiler, and suspension mods, was a number of high speed accidents on German Autobahns.
Mac.
 

A2Z

Member
Personally I didn't think they looked at all right anyway until the rear spoiler was added and is also the downfall in the stationary looks dept of the mk2 too
 

Edwrai

Member
Both are Quattro, although this is the baby Haldex system rather than the full fat all wheel drive Quattro of the next platform up. Haldex can do as much as 50/50 but most of time runs with very heavy front bias, 90/10 I believe. The full fat can do 20/80 to 80/20, give or take.

The 150 was fwd. Not sure on the 190. EDIT: there are certainly 190's with fwd but don't know if that was all of them.
Most of the time haldex mk1 which is used on these is 100% fwd, torque is only transferred if there is slip at the front at the front it is possible in certain conditions to have 100% of torque to the rear


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Edwrai

Member
I remember that after the Sunday Times report criticising the handling of the MK1 following the accident on the Ayesbury to Wendover Road Audi recalled all the mk1 s and shipped them back to Germany so that a spoiler could be fitted in the factory. This meant arranging loan cars for all the customers and remembering to collect them afterwards. All indications were that it was the drivers fault as he had gone too fast on a long left hand bend, which is well known to locals.
They changed the bushings in the front suspension Audi to improve high speed stability


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Rusty911

A2OC Donor
Most of the time haldex mk1 which is used on these is 100% fwd, torque is only transferred if there is slip at the front at the front it is possible in certain conditions to have 100% of torque to the rear


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From what I understand these early Haldex systems are always running a little at the rear: 10% originally, later 5%. Haldex definitely can't send more than 50% to the rear. Even the Torsen system can only do a 20/80 to rear: all of this is off a Youtube video that goes into this in some depth by Audi specialists. They refer to the Haldex as Faux Wheel Drive as it's not a true AWD (i.e. it's default isn't to run a 50/50 split).
 

Rusty911

A2OC Donor
Update: went to see the blue eBay one yesterday as the seller had come back with a revised deal. Before the resident Covid Police coming knocking: I'm in the trade so can travel for cars perfectly legally plus I took new mask, gloves and hand sanitiser. I had no contact with an actual human from leaving my place to arriving home again. Frankly it was lovely to go for a drive: I live and work on my own and my only other reason to be out and about is doing shopping for me and five other people (parents, unit-neighbour and unit landlord and his other half). Had a brilliant drive in the evening sun with the old 4x4 and trailer: it's a route that's pretty tight and winding and usually you're battling with all sorts coming the other way.

Anyway ... (!). The TT. Honestly, my first thought as I drew up was it looked fat. In photos they look pretty lean but the reality for me was it just looked rather flabby. Too rounded? Funny thing is I must have seen thousands over the years. Of course I'm looking at it after having the Roadster (and driving a smart 4/2), so I guess most things will look big. I can really see why the MK2 was sharpened right up to a leaner, meaner look, albeit in a larger package.

Lovely inside, both in design and as an example. Really liked that, but no 'down the bonnet' view at all, nothing to suggest 'this is going to be a bit special'. My 911's, 996 and Roadster all had / have a view of some sort. Frankly I just thought 'nope' at that point. This was very much helped by the fact the underside of this particular one was very corroded and caked in old mud. Had a lot of chips, dinks and scrapes which the dark blue highlighted. It had been carelessly jacked, missing undertray, oily engine, grubby inside oil cap etc. Engine sounded very healthy to be fair, clutch smooth and light, gears selected nicely. Shame as the colour was fab and I really liked the half-leather.

Bottom line was I just couldn't see it on my drive. It didn't make me smile when I saw it. In fact it was just a rather tired old car. Having one rather unwise Audi mini-resto underway is enough for now I think. Therefore I didn't drive it: I already knew this wasn't going to work this time so no point putting the seller in the position of having to let me drive it alone (no other option at the moment of course).

Now, I can see as a rather pretty daily it would be a nice thing if in the right condition, but for me, at this time? No, I'll stick with the Smart for now I think. That really did make me smile when I saw it: didn't even drive it, I thought 'I don't care, I'm having it.'

BTW, just did a 'How Many Left' on Smart Roadster Coupe 80bhp: about 850. I was surprised it's that high tbh as they didn't do nearly as many Coupe's as the cheaper notch-back, about 1/4 - 1/5th I think (they were quite a bit more expensive). Out of interest did TT 225's: Nearly 20,000 left! Add in the more common 180's, the 190's and 150's: that is an amazing number still knocking about. As was said before, you can afford to be picky.

If another TT cropped up in a really good colour in the right condition fairly locally I might well still be tempted to look: a lot of the negatively yesterday was the condition of the actual example and what's happening in the world at the moment. Even so, my gut is to stick with the Roadster. I do have a Forester S Turbo that's been in storage for ages. Perhaps I should do a little resto of that and put it back on the road. That really is a good (brilliant) driver's car.

Like all of these things, it's fun to search the net, look at the ads, kick the idea around on a forum or two. Then you get there: do you get 'the fizz' or just want to turn around and drive home? For me, yesterday, it was the latter.

Thank you for all your inputs to the thread: very much appreciated :)

Barry
image.jpeg
 
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Pinkythelabrat

A2OC Donor
My friend runs a smart-only garage and had a lovely Brabus roadster with the hard top and every toy and care taken. It’s like your bottom is touching the ground it’s so low and nimble. A lovely species of car.

My wife still has a Fortwo - it’s our third.


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Rusty911

A2OC Donor
My friend runs a smart-only garage and had a lovely Brabus roadster with the hard top and every toy and care taken. It’s like your bottom is touching the ground it’s so low and nimble. A lovely species of car.

My wife still has a Fortwo - it’s our third.


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:)

Yes, in order to get an in-scale sportscar with space for an actual human bean inside the seating position has to be fantastically low in the roadster. It is a genius design and in coupe form has the most fabulous side profile, complete with the modern design requirement of 2/3rds body to 1/3rd glass. As you say, down at that level in such an agile little thing really gives a wonderful sporty feel. The fact it's little more than half the weight of many cars (TT Quattro included) helps!

The 4/2's my favourite though. In my case the '4/2' is actually a City (Cabrio) being pre-4/2 badging. Again, just design genius: half the length of the V70 and feels just as light and airy inside. Brilliant, brilliant mid-engined (just) chassis that is wonderfully chuckable with lovely friction-free, light steering all coupled to ridiculous turn-in. The most fun you'll ever have doing 50. A lot of people have had 4/2's for years and years. Wonderful things.

The slight problem I have with the Roadster is that it's not actually 'that' much more fun than the 4/2 to drive. What makes the 4/2 charming, the gearbox, doesn't chime so well in a sportscar. Ironically the Roadster also has appalling steering compared to the little one: it's powered, miles too light, zero feel, huge steering wheel. All wrong. Even so, there's not much on my radar that could topple the Roadster. There's a lot of upside there despite the niggles. If I got a TT, I certainly wouldn't sell the Roadster until I was pretty convinced by the Audi.
 
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ajsellors

A2OC Donor
From what I understand these early Haldex systems are always running a little at the rear: 10% originally, later 5%. Haldex definitely can't send more than 50% to the rear. Even the Torsen system can only do a 20/80 to rear: all of this is off a Youtube video that goes into this in some depth by Audi specialists. They refer to the Haldex as Faux Wheel Drive as it's not a true AWD (i.e. it's default isn't to run a 50/50 split).
Yes, that's right. The gearbox in the TT drives the front wheels just like a front wheel only drive car. The difference is that it has a additional output shaft that goes through a transfer box to the Haldex clutch. The clutch controls how much power goes to the rear wheels so for most of the time its more or less like a front wheel drive car. When the front wheels loose grip, the ECU engages the Haldex clutch and directs power to the rear wheels but it can be only a maximum of 50% as the front wheel drive is permanently connected. The problem with the standard set up is that it takes up to 1/4 revolution to fully engage the Haldex. As this happens after the front wheels have lost grip, there is a noticeable delay before the rear kicks in. A common mod for Haldex cars which I have on my Mk1 TT is to reprogram the Haldex ECU to engage the rear drive on the throttle. When applying power, the rear drive engages straight away and so before the front grip is lost. This means you can power out of corners and have the back of the car push you round the bend with a little bit of controllable oversteer if you want. That completely transforms how the car drives.

regards

Andrew

[edited to correct the number of revolutions to engage the Haldex]
 
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