New 6 speed gearbox method - passat '11 onwards MYP gearbox

raymor

A2OC Donor
Cheers Tim - so, does this mean if the ABS unit was changed to an MK60 variant that the speed output would be present? Do you know if this in turn would present any further 'grandfathering' problems?

Thanks,
Raymond
 

timmus

A2OC Donor
So, does this mean if the ABS unit was changed to an MK60 variant that the speed output would be present?
Yes. The MK60 unit has a pulse-based speedo output (on pin 26, if I remember correctly), so this would solve the problem. However, to change from the MK20 unit to the MK60 unit would involve entering a world of pain and expense. The electrical connector has a different pinout, so at the very least all the terminals would have to be swapped around. The electrical connector itself may also be physically different. The arrangement of the hydraulic lines is also different, so replacement pipework would be needed, at least as far back as a common union if not all the way to the wheel arches. You've then got further complications due the the G201 pressure sensor being external to the MK20 unit but integrated inside the MK60 unit. Basically, you'd have to update/modify the whole ABS system. As far as I know, it's never been done before, and it would almost certainly cost more than simply extending your existing 5-speed box to accommodate a 6th gear. Furthermore, the MK60 unit isn't as reliable as the earlier MK20 unit.

The alternative is that a speedo drive is fitted to the MYP gearbox. This would require investigation and may be physically impossible or prohibitively expensive.
Below is a photo of my differential assembly from the standard EWQ gearbox, sat on its side. You can see that, beneath the bearing at the very top of the photo, there's a thin helical gear wheel. This is used to spin the speedo drive. The differential assembly from the MYP gearbox may not have this gear wheel.

EWQ Diff.jpg

If the the MYP differential carrier has the required helical gear of the right size, the gearbox housing may not have a hole for the speedo drive. It may be possible to machine an appropriate hole, though this may result in swarf entering the gearbox. If the MYP differential carrier does not have the required gear wheel, it may be possible to transplant the differential carrier from the EWQ gearbox, though this would rely on the final drive (the massive toothed wheel at the bottom of the photo) being transferable, among other things.

So, in short, it may be possible to fit an MYP gearbox to an A2 that currently relies on a gearbox speedo drive, but some pioneering would certainly be needed. It's probably easier and cheaper to simply upgrade the existing EWQ 5-speed gearbox with a 6-speed add-on kit.

Cheers,

Tom
 
Last edited:

timmus

A2OC Donor
Would a 2011 seat ibiza fr 2.0tdi gear box fit?
Unfortunately, there is no way of knowing without doing a fair bit of homework and then having a go. Have you established whether its gear ratios are suitable?

Cheers,

Tom
 
Last edited:
Just FYI, my A2 1.4TDI (facelift model) was produced in February 2004. There were no any electric/electronic modifications when replacing GPK 02J with MYP 02S, only hardware adjustments.
 
Last edited:

Akeel

Member
Hmm I'll have to do some research Tom and see if even an Audi a1 gearbox can fit being it a 1.6tdi or I'm not sure if they do other tdi in the a1s

Sent from my HTC One A9 using Tapatalk
 

spike

Well-Known Member
I've just done some of the necessary research...

It seems to be that Option 2 from Vince's list above isn't an option. My new understanding (as of today) is that the software inside the instrument cluster is totally irrelevant when it comes to speedo signals. All instrument clusters pick up a pulse-based speedo signal; earlier clusters use the gearbox as the source, whilst later clusters use the ABS unit as the source.
If you fit a gearbox without a speedo drive (such as the 6-speed MYP gearbox), the cluster must then be able to pick up its speed signal from the ABS unit. However, if the ABS unit doesn't have a speed signal output, you've got serious problems!
My current belief is that the earlier MK20 ABS unit doesn't have a pulse-based speedo output, which would explain why it's fitted in conjunction with a gearbox speedo drive. Based on this new understanding, the 6-speed upgrade method suitable for a given car is therefore determined by the generation of ABS unit fitted, not the generation of instrument cluster. If you've got a MK20 ABS unit, you must upgrade via a gearbox extension (such as the one fitted to my car: http://www.a2oc.net/forum/showthread.php?21523). If you've got the later MK60 ABS unit, both upgrade methods are available to you (either MYP 'box or an extension of your existing 'box).

Option 1 from Vince's list above remains a possibility. If this is physically possible, then the MYP gearbox option becomes available to all.

Cheers,

Tom
Dug out this old post (#23) on a novel way of providing a speed signal - http://www.a2oc.net/forum/showthread.php?4241-6-Speed-Gearbox&p=95912#post95912

Cheers Spike

PS. It would be worth checking the current 'plug-in' speedo drive ration and confirming this can be reproduced with the appropriate number of magnets
 
Last edited:

Akeel

Member
Bala your right , I must of got mixed up with the ibiza fr box

Sent from my HTC One A9 using Tapatalk
 

depronman

A2OC Donor
Dug out this old post (#23) on a novel way of providing a speed signal - http://www.a2oc.net/forum/showthread.php?4241-6-Speed-Gearbox&p=95912#post95912

Cheers Spike

PS. It would be worth checking the current 'plug-in' speedo drive ration and confirming this can be reproduced with the appropriate number of magnets
Now that is truly 'thinking outside the box'. I like that, the idea is not unlike the ABS sensor. As it only picks up from one drive shaft it will be a little bit out when cornering due to one wheel rotating faster / slower than the other, but at speed when you are looking at the speedo the error is be very small.
I use neodymium magnets when making small brushless motors for model aircraft, they are available in various sizes, a common size is 5mm Square by 2mm thick.
If someone is interested in doing this mod I have just replaced my CV joints and still have the old ones in the garage, I could measure the outside diameter of the joint and 3D print an ABS plastic ring to fit around the joint, the ring would have recesses to glue the magnets into.
Someone will need to confirm the number of magnets, from the previous thread 14 appears to be the number used. I am assuming that the old speedo drive was 'cut in half' and used as the sensor. Does anyone have a speedo sensor that they would be willing to donate to the project ???
 

raymor

A2OC Donor
As Im currently in the midst of this A2 6 speed conundrum. I did think about replicating the signal, but the idea of using a cut down OEM sensor is ideal. Other sensors I looked at didn't have the same output. Looks like the OEM sensor output is around 35mA and the OEM speedo drive is six pulses I've just check the drive ratio of the speedo drive to the driveshaft flange and it looks like 10 pulses/magnets would equate to one flange revolution.Another thought is to swap the front of the gearbox casing. What would traditionally be thought as bellhousing/diff casing. The 'only' difference is that what looks like the mainshaft bearing casting on the MYP looks bigger. This could be due to the increased weight and torque of donor vehicle and doesn't necessarily mean that the shaft bearing surface itself is larger - maybe simply the bearing. If this was 'swappable' then you could keep the speedo drive. I've asked a mate to pop over and have a look - he repairs gearbox's so invading the guts of it wont be as alarming to him.

Do we know if the speedo drive simply sends a signal to drive the speedo or if it compares it to the ABS signal?

Thanks,
Raymond
 

raymor

A2OC Donor
Mate just called. Going to go for internals swap as there are little differences that make the case splitting and swapping a non starter. Let's see how this goes then....
 

raymor

A2OC Donor
Well... 6 speed has been built into a combination of casings to provide the speedo drive. Looks like front end of 5sp casing with the drive + diff, then 6sp main casing and 6th gear end casing. All ready to bolt in. New clutch and replaced the two front very knackered wheel bearings. Missing an inner plastic splash shield from one of the inside bearing faces but Audi can't see it as a part. Anyone know the number?
 

Attachments

E T Oddie

Banned
Hi Raymor

If you PM me your Telephone number and a pic of what your after I will have a look and see if I have one.

Eamonn
 

raymor

A2OC Donor
Yeehaa! I now have the utter joy (I kid ye not) of 6 gears. So it works, you can build MYP into in to early model casing. My first hunch was right and it was original bell housing mated to mid casing and turret of MYP - but none of this would have occurred but for the forum.

Car is transformed - Thanks all
 
Another option for remapped TDIs I could think of is a PTW 6-speed gearbox. It is usually coupled with the 1.6TDI 81 kW 110 HP CRKB engine. Applications:
Audi A3 ultra
Seat Leon Ecomotive
Skoda Octavia Greenline
VW Golf VII BlueMotion / Golf VII Variant BlueMotion

Gear ratios PTW (MYP):
3,78 (4,11)
1,94 (2,12)
1,27 (1,36)
0,97 (0,97)
0,773 (0,733)
0,625 (0,592)
Diff.: 3,16 (3,39)
 

E T Oddie

Banned
Hi All

Yesterday I experienced the joy of being in a A2 tdi 75bhp belonging to Raymor / Raymond which had be fitted with the 6 speed MYP Gearbox, from other Audi /VW Group Cars.

What a transformation in this vehicle from the 5 speed, whilst I have always enjoyed driving the tdi A2 this conversion has turned the A2 into a complete joy for Motorway cruising and I am now converted to converting my A2tdi to this ultimate upgrade unless someone on the Forum who has electronic Wizardly at their fingertips can work a DSG 7speed into an A2.

Raymond it was a pleasure to meet with you yesterday and many thanks for your time taking me around Bonnie Scotland's wonderful Motorway system at 70mpg at just 2200rpm in your A2.

Looking forward to a further Tour Raymond in your Quattro B2 with it's new V8 engine mpg unknown.

Cannot upload video for some unknown reason.
 
Top