New A2 time - suspension dilemma!

Swalsey

Swalsey

Member
Evening all,

After a long time looking to replace my trusty A2 of 10 years, I have just paid for it's replacement and I'm quite excited to be able to use it! The previous owners have certainly really looked after it and have barely driven it, however it has 17" TT wheels and low suspension (much lower than a standard sport spec.). It's too low to be practical for me (access to my house and my commute roads are horrendus) so need to be changed before I can use it. The current dampers and springs, and the 17" TT wheels (and quite new Bridgestone tyres) will be removed and sold. I have good 16" wheels with 205/50 tyres from my current car.

I can't go much lower than the standard sport suspension setup of my current car, however I'd be stupid to put the original sport suspension on the car as we all know it's terrible! I am pretty set that I'll fit Bilstein B6s but having read for hours on the various threads I need some input for springs and seats etc. please.

The OE sport setup is -10mm, so I think I could go a total of -20mm below a standard SE setup / -10 from an OE sport setup. The goal is decent ride quality with fun handling - hence I'll consider ARBs later.

Now the question: what is the best spring to fit that won't lower the car (TDI90) much more than a standard sport setup please? Is the standard sport spring with the sport thinner seats etc. an option?

Thanks :)

Antony
 
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I think the sport and SE springs are exactly the same on our A2,s. The difference lies in the shock absorbers and top mounts.
 
Aluminium said:
Bilstein B6s are fantastic gas dampers, I gather they also make B3 springs to match, I'd hazard a guess it'd offer far better ride comfort and handling than Audi's Sport setup.

If there are no A2 B3 springs then perhaps Audi's Sport spec springs will be the second-best option...?
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I think the b3 springs are OEM specs, bilstein uses Eibach on the b12 pro kits etc. Also B6 are designed for factory springs b8 for lowered springs


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
B8 are designed for 30mm lowering or more. B6 are stiffer than standard, b4 are more "OEM". B3 springs similar to original.

I'm not aware of any damper changes in any of the models, even the S-Line.

- Bret
 
Thanks all; something isn’t adding up though. I think my next question is what makes the sport model so much stiffer than the SE if the springs and dampers are supposedly the same? My girlfriends SE is FAR softer suggesting it’s not just different bump stops and mounts etc!
 
My advise leave standard you certainly don’t want a harsher ride its firm enough with 17” wheels ..I’m repeating myself here ...i have standard shocks but with h&r springs lowering my 911 turbos s 30 mm on a perfect billiard table A road it’s wonderfull other than there’s no pleasure at all bone jarring ride ..believe me ..it’s going in next Monday for 4 new genuine standard shocks and springs ..unless you want a go cart ..forget it the standard setup in my humble opinion on these a2s is fine I’ve nearly had one on 2 wheels but you have to be trying very hard to lose it ..ude be better off paying for a days track tuition one to one ..you will learn a heck of a lot ..and have more fun with your road driving ..
 
The impression I had when I collated all the available aftermarket spring data (attached is not the best table but the front springs listed from 302 to 338mm in height are A2 spec ; the rest are from other similar sized VAG vehicles with taller heights) was much as SteveC has said above - ones that you could say are almost certainly sports spec were firstly 30+mm lower in overall height at both ends (ie, 302 vs 337mm for fronts), as well as having a thicker (1mm+ ) spring wire. Mostly lacked data on coil numbers, but assuming everything else equal an arbitrary spring coefficient calculation using wire, diameter and height suggested that they were at least 50-60% "stiffer" than the "normal" springs, and that is without coil information that could have wound them up still further.

1.2Tdi springs have a similar height drop to the sports for aero efficiency, but with a spring rate equivalent to the softer conventional heights as they're obviously dealing with a fair bit less weight.

For me Bilstein B4s have been fantastic on both 1.4tdi and 1.4i front ends, but with Suplex 03207 springs on the petrol car and a set of rather more robust Monroe SP3248s (from memory) on the Tdi front that appear to be very similar gauge as the original springs. Both ride well, but the Tdi is certainly 'sportier' in feel than the 1.4i which is is both absorbent and retains lightness (without being soft). I have 195/55/16s on the Tdi and 195/50/16s on the 1.4i so there is plenty of sidewall in both cases.
 

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Swalsey said:
Thanks all; something isn’t adding up though. I think my next question is what makes the sport model so much stiffer than the SE if the springs and dampers are supposedly the same? My girlfriends SE is FAR softer suggesting it’s not just different bump stops and mounts etc!
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Sport dampers are different from SE dampers, sport and SE springs are the same. And then there's the 17" vs 16" wheel size
 
Part numbers, proof please.

AFAIK there is zero difference in any dampers (1.2 excluded) until the 2003 refresh. Part number indexes bear that one out, but I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on why this might be the case.

When I bought mine back in 2003, I was convinced it had sports suspension - no, no such thing existed at the time. For MY 2003 a mild change was made to soften things up a little and then the S-Line and sports suspension packages were brought out later.

- Bret
 
Evening all, sorry I haven’t been able to reply regularly and I appreciate the contributions!

I’ve clearly opened a can of worms, people are contradicting each other so I’m going to have to look into this further. I think I’ll go to a dealer and get some part numbers for our two existing A2s (54 SE and 52 Sport) then I’ll report back, but that will have to wait until the weekend at the earliest.

I think I need to find some members kind enough to give me a ride i their car with Bilstein B6s as I can’t afford to gamble money hoping they are suitable, I need it right first time!

TBC...
 
Robin_Cox said:
The impression I had when I collated all the available aftermarket spring data (attached is not the best table but the front springs listed from 302 to 338mm in height are A2 spec ; the rest are from other similar sized VAG vehicles with taller heights) was much as SteveC has said above - ones that you could say are almost certainly sports spec were firstly 30+mm lower in overall height at both ends (ie, 302 vs 337mm for fronts), as well as having a thicker (1mm+ ) spring wire. Mostly lacked data on coil numbers, but assuming everything else equal an arbitrary spring coefficient calculation using wire, diameter and height suggested that they were at least 50-60% "stiffer" than the "normal" springs, and that is without coil information that could have wound them up still further.

1.2Tdi springs have a similar height drop to the sports for aero efficiency, but with a spring rate equivalent to the softer conventional heights as they're obviously dealing with a fair bit less weight.

For me Bilstein B4s have been fantastic on both 1.4tdi and 1.4i front ends, but with Suplex 03207 springs on the petrol car and a set of rather more robust Monroe SP3248s (from memory) on the Tdi front that appear to be very similar gauge as the original springs. Both ride well, but the Tdi is certainly 'sportier' in feel than the 1.4i which is is both absorbent and retains lightness (without being soft). I have 195/55/16s on the Tdi and 195/50/16s on the 1.4i so there is plenty of sidewall in both cases.
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Thank you very much for this, it’s good to have some hard data to look at! I’ll consider the B4s with stiffer ARBs but I’m wary that I hate driving a standard SE compared to a sport...
 
greywolfhound said:
My advise leave standard you certainly don’t want a harsher ride its firm enough with 17” wheels ..I’m repeating myself here ...i have standard shocks but with h&r springs lowering my 911 turbos s 30 mm on a perfect billiard table A road it’s wonderfull other than there’s no pleasure at all bone jarring ride ..believe me ..it’s going in next Monday for 4 new genuine standard shocks and springs ..unless you want a go cart ..forget it the standard setup in my humble opinion on these a2s is fine I’ve nearly had one on 2 wheels but you have to be trying very hard to lose it ..ude be better off paying for a days track tuition one to one ..you will learn a heck of a lot ..and have more fun with your road driving ..
Click to expand...
Hi greywolfhound; I appreciate what you’re saying. It I’m not pushing to the limit - I just want to be able to maintain momentum and conceding without excessive roll and diving. I’ve got a fun car too but the A2 is my main car so I want to replicate and imrpve the setup of my old Sport :)
 
Swalsey said:
.....l. I’m going to have to look into this further. I think I’ll go to a dealer and get some part numbers for our two existing A2s (54 SE and 52 Sport) then I’ll report back, .....
Click to expand...
Hi,

Will this achieve anything? Will it not just replicate the part numbers in the first post in 'The Definitive Suspension Parts List' thread that are available to you now?

Andy
 
Andrew said:
Hi,

Will this achieve anything? Will it not just replicate the part numbers in the first post in 'The Definitive Suspension Parts List' thread that are available to you now?

Andy
Click to expand...
Hi,

As far as I can see the thread doesn’t give part numbers for springs and shocks; those are the parts in question for me. I hope I’m not being blind!
 
Swalsey said:
Hi greywolfhound; I appreciate what you’re saying. It I’m not pushing to the limit - I just want to be able to maintain momentum and conceding without excessive roll and diving. I’ve got a fun car too but the A2 is my main car so I want to replicate and imrpve the setup of my old Sport :)
Click to expand...
I think robin cox seems to be the one that seems to have done his home work ...I just think Audi will have done their homework on the everyday balance of the car .. if you have a fun car ..you don’t need 2 ?.. no everyone to their own and if your shocks are shot ..and your replacing I can see why you would like to get a little more out of it ..good luck let us know ..
 
What Robin's done is not applicable for all of us. Quite a few non-UK will need paperwork to get changed springs through their MoT-Equivalent. The Audi balance was generally done to make sure the elk.test was passed and for high-speed stability (remember that in 1999 early TTs were retrofitted with a spoiler and ESP because some of them had crashed at 200km/h on the autobahn). So it's a little lower and stiffer than it necessarily needs to be.

I don't see the point in original shocks and any ride comparisons are moot, as you don't know what life the car has led; with identical (or close to) odo readings you might get close, but tolerances are significant.

My take on this: feel free to search out someone with B6. They are quite stiff - B8s are just shorter B6s - and do not "give" much, so the car does not "breathe" with the road. Adding something like Eibachs drops the car again, and if you add H&R ARBs (which are the only option some of us have to stiffen), then the go-kart is on the road. I can literally do a half turn of the wheel at 30km/h and the car will follow with close-to-zero roll. I'm running 15" wheels with 195/50R15, Eibachs, and B8s. Meyle HD droplinks as they're the only ones that have lasted for me. Superpro ARB bushes and dogbone. I have the bushes for the rear axle, too, that should make a real difference again.
If you're already running Superturismos - I'll assume 195/45R16 over 7J...then I'd go B6 and get the correct Spidan springs or B3 if they're not available. Should give you a nice tight ride with some compliance. If it's not enough, then Eibachs are the way to go (if you can find them!) over H&R (which are too stiff for the light car in most opinions - you get hopping). B4 shocks will give closer to OEM with a little more squat and dive than the B6. The ARB is the one that will give the most effect against roll, though... and monroes or FSDs will give you a more comfort-oriented ride.

I did the B8s a couple of years ago, but haven't really driven the car that much since. It's awesome - so much sideways g-force is possible.

As always, this is an opinion and I know there are those who disagree with me.

- Bret
 
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