Possibly terminal for Mabel?

Teresa

Social Secretary
Hi, Mabel has had a.lumpy idle on and off. Vcds showed random misfire cylinder 1.
Eventually managed to get her booked into the garage. They changed the spark plugs and 1 coil pack, but told me that one of the bits on one of the spark plugs was missing, presumed gone into the engine.
Only way to check is to take off the head and they want no part of that.
Reading online, it seems that it's probably damaged the cylinder. I'm wondering if I've done as much damage as I can, and should just continue to get as much fun out of her as I can until she stops (driving and accelerating us fine - it's just the idle and EML light on fairly soon after reset), before selling for spares or repair😭
Any thoughts very gratefully received. I didnt even know bits of spark plugs could get in the cylinder. You'd think there would be a filter to stop it.
20220915_143832.jpg
 

RAB

Technical Specialist 1.2 TDI
The missing part could have gone out through the exhaust! Best way to check is a compression test and compare to the other cylinders. It might also be possible to extract anything with a small vacuum line. If it's metal, maybe with a small magnet on the end of a piece of copper wire? Don't lose the magnet though!

RAB
 

birtyA2

Member
I’ve seen conversations on other threads about the use on endoscopes. If someone has access to one that is thin enough to poke carefully in where the spark plug goes it may be possible to see whether the electrode is still present in the cylinder or whether it has damaged or scored the cylinder lining. Agree with @RAB that it may well have been puffed out the exhaust

Justin
 

Teresa

Social Secretary
Thank you I did think about a magnet but thought I might be being daft, so good to have that as a suggestion
I'll book it into the other garage I use and see what they say as my usual one isn't keen on getting involved (they have previously done head gasket and inlet manifold so can understand a bit)
 

birtyA2

Member
I forgot to ask, was the plug with the missing electrode from cylinder 1 that shows the occasional misfire, or from another cylinder?
 

PlasticMac

Member
Hi, Mabel has had a.lumpy idle on and off. Vcds showed random misfire cylinder 1.
Eventually managed to get her booked into the garage. They changed the spark plugs and 1 coil pack, but told me that one of the bits on one of the spark plugs was missing, presumed gone into the engine.
Only way to check is to take off the head and they want no part of that.
Reading online, it seems that it's probably damaged the cylinder. I'm wondering if I've done as much damage as I can, and should just continue to get as much fun out of her as I can until she stops (driving and accelerating us fine - it's just the idle and EML light on fairly soon after reset), before selling for spares or repair😭
Any thoughts very gratefully received. I didnt even know bits of spark plugs could get in the cylinder. You'd think there would be a filter to stop it.
View attachment 99307
If it's just lumpy idle, and everything else seems fine, I'd be surprised if significant damage has been done, it's likely the electrode has vaporised and gone via the exhaust. What's to be gained by a compression test? Best assume the best, not confirm the worst.
Mac.
 

Teresa

Social Secretary
I’ve seen conversations on other threads about the use on endoscopes. If someone has access to one that is thin enough to poke carefully in where the spark plug goes it may be possible to see whether the electrode is still present in the cylinder or whether it has damaged or scored the cylinder lining. Agree with @RAB that it may well have been puffed out the exhaust

Justin
Thank you. Interestingly at a simar time to getting the rough idle, I got exhaust gas temp sensor intermittent. They were going to change that today but I'd got the wrong one. So they cleaned the old one up that they said had a load of stuff bungeg in it. Not sure if the electrode could have got caught on there on the way out? Although u am still getting cylinder 1 misfire code, I'm not getting exhaust gas temp any more
Oil filler housing is loose too which I don't think helps
 

Teresa

Social Secretary
I forgot to ask, was the plug with the missing electrode from cylinder 1 that shows the occasional misfire, or from another cylinder?
Yes. It was which I think is why they are suspicious about the bit falling in
 

steve_c

Grumpy OAP & A2OC Donor
That's a Bosch super 4 spark plug, I think. One of the ground electrodes has departed, and another (the one at 7 pm) has got really heavy wear, presumably as a result of the misfire.

I'd be looking to change my plugs annually from now on with Mabel, or at least inspecting the plugs annually to check for any sign of wear, paying particular attention to the plug in cylinder 1. This is certainly something you can do yourself, rather than needing a garage.
 

Teresa

Social Secretary
That's a Bosch super 4 spark plug, I think. One of the ground electrodes has departed, and another (the one at 7 pm) has got really heavy wear, presumably as a result of the misfire.

I'd be looking to change my plugs annually from now on with Mabel, or at least inspecting the plugs annually to check for any sign of wear, paying particular attention to the plug in cylinder 1. This is certainly something you can do yourself, rather than needing a garage.
Thanks Steve. Yes. If I can fix this rough idle I will change them a lot more often. I really struggle to get the coil packs out without breaking all the plastic so tend to get the garage to do them. I have heard of a coil pack puller so will investigate that
 

Teresa

Social Secretary
If it's just lumpy idle, and everything else seems fine, I'd be surprised if significant damage has been done, it's likely the electrode has vaporised and gone via the exhaust. What's to be gained by a compression test? Best assume the best, not confirm the worst.
Mac.
Thanks for the reassurance Mac. My garage were being a bit doom and gloom
 

kp 115

Member
Hi, Mabel has had a.lumpy idle on and off. Vcds showed random misfire cylinder 1.
Eventually managed to get her booked into the garage. They changed the spark plugs and 1 coil pack, but told me that one of the bits on one of the spark plugs was missing, presumed gone into the engine.
Only way to check is to take off the head and they want no part of that.
Reading online, it seems that it's probably damaged the cylinder. I'm wondering if I've done as much damage as I can, and should just continue to get as much fun out of her as I can until she stops (driving and accelerating us fine - it's just the idle and EML light on fairly soon after reset), before selling for spares or repair😭
Any thoughts very gratefully received. I didnt even know bits of spark plugs could get in the cylinder. You'd think there would be a filter to stop it.
View attachment 99307
Hi Teresa,
It Looks to me like the plugs are well beyond their designed life as the gap looks way bigger than spec , do you have a sharper image of the actual electrodes ?
Borescope from Amazon with magnet attachments are available for £15-£20 bracket.
Hope that is some help.
Keith.
 

steve_c

Grumpy OAP & A2OC Donor
Bosch Super 4 plugs are fine for most cars (I currently have them in my 1.4 A2), but performance engines really require something better. NGK and Denso make the best plugs, and their iridium offerings are the best of the best.

Here's an eBay link to the Denso set I am considering fitting to my car, and presumably would be the same for yours:
 

Andrew

A2OC Donor
Bosch Super 4 plugs are fine for most cars (I currently have them in my 1.4 A2), but performance engines really require something better. NGK and Denso make the best plugs, and their iridium offerings are the best of the best.

Here's an eBay link to the Denso set I am considering fitting to my car, and presumably would be the same for yours:
Caution, the spec for the FSI spark plugs is for the 4 earth electrode type.

Andy
 

steve_c

Grumpy OAP & A2OC Donor
Caution, the spec for the FSI spark plugs is for the 4 earth electrode type.

Or the 3 earth electrode type, depending on whether Audi were fitting NGK or Bosch plugs at the time.

The technology involved in manufacturing spark plugs has moved on since those days. The latest generation plugs produce a better spark more consistently, and are far more resistant to wear in use.
 

PlasticMac

Member
It might tell whether any damage has been done!

RAB
Of course, you're correct.
However my logic is that the damage, whatever it may be, is done.
If significant, repairing that damage will involve taking the head off at a minimum, refurbishing the head will be costly, and if the damage is on a piston, or bore, would be the end of the engine. Getting that far will have cost a few pennies, to no avail.
If it's running well, fit a new set of plugs, and enjoy while it lasts. The low cost option.
Unless @Teresa is up for a spend of several hundreds of pounds, there is nothing to be gained by knowing what the damage is. It's the pragmatic approach.
Mac.
 

steve_c

Grumpy OAP & A2OC Donor
However my logic is that the damage, whatever it may be, is done.
If significant, repairing that damage will involve taking the head off at a minimum, refurbishing the head will be costly, and if the damage is on a piston, or bore, would be the end of the engine. Getting that far will have cost a few pennies, to no avail.

It's very difficult for owners who become attached to their cars, and wish to keep them running pretty much regardless of cost.

A compression test is not expensive, and should indicate whether or not there is significant damage. At the moment, Teresa is driving Mabel not knowing, and with the possibility that the engine might fail as a consequence.

If the car were mine, I'd have it compression tested, and then discuss the options going forward with the garage.
 

RAB

Technical Specialist 1.2 TDI
Of course, you're correct.
However my logic is that the damage, whatever it may be, is done.
If significant, repairing that damage will involve taking the head off at a minimum, refurbishing the head will be costly, and if the damage is on a piston, or bore, would be the end of the engine. Getting that far will have cost a few pennies, to no avail.
If it's running well, fit a new set of plugs, and enjoy while it lasts. The low cost option.
Unless @Teresa is up for a spend of several hundreds of pounds, there is nothing to be gained by knowing what the damage is. It's the pragmatic approach.
Mac.
But you are assuming that damage has been done, which may not be correct. If not, just check with a boroscope or magnet to see if anything remains. If not .......

RAB
 
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