PTW 6-speed (manual) gearbox with an A2 AMF engine

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lbaonline

New Member
I'm thinking about replacing my standard EWQ gearbox with a PTW 6-speed gearbox. What are the main differences (except for the obvious) and especially the pitfalls of spooning it in my A2 with an AMF engine?

I looked for any information on this topic on the internet, but I did not find the - for me - correct answers or solutions to this 'problem'. Anyone?
 
Hello and welcome,

This is not a 'test your knowledge' question.

Could you list the obvious differences you have spotted then A2oc members can fill in any gaps.

And good luck with your six speed project.
🙂👍
 
Since I also have a PTW installed around the same time as @dj_efk I can also make some input. You need to prepare two small brackets to relocate 2 of the 3 gearbox cable carrier mounting points by a small distance (less than couple of inches). The A2 original driveshaft cups need to be unbolted from the 5-speed gearbox and swapped with the driveshaft cups in the new box - this relates to A2 driveshafts using larger mounting bolt sizes than the ones in the 6-speed boxes. WOM get the gearbox bell housing casing machined to reduce the 6mm deeper material (needed to accommodate DMF in the cars the gearbox is intended for and equivalent to the 6mm spacer used in 90hp Tdi A2s to accommodate the DMF in those cars compared to the 75hp with otherwise very similar gearbox) - although in my case the PTW swap was done without this reduction but with the normal single-mass flywheel and a new clutch kit. So this isn't essential but is probably a good idea. Other than that the gearbox swap was generally painless in real terms.

Edited to add - but the AMF / BHC 75hp engine absolutely has to be given a remap to increase the power / torque to a level that will support the increased gearing.
 
Hello,
Does anybody have a picture of the machining before and after?
WOM get the gearbox bell housing casing machined to reduce the 6mm deeper material
Click to expand...
Please upload a photo, I would like to see it.
 
I am thinking about the swap as well but what are differences in gearing? 50 km/h in 3rd, 90 km/h in 5th, 130 km/h in 6th?

My standart box is:
50 km/h ~2200 RPM in 3rd
90 km/h ~2000 RPM in 5th
130km/h ~3000 RPM in 5th

I am driving about 60% of time on motorway and thats why I am considering the upgrade...
 
My AMF is paired with an NTG box and 205/40/17 tyres

The BHC is paired with PTW and 195/55/16s.

I would need to go out and check for the lower speeds.

However, 130km/h equates to ~81mph

With the PTW an indicated 70mph/114km/h is around 2050-2100rpm in 6th if I remember correctly, and hypothetically 81mph would be 2300-2400rpm. This would correlate beautifully with the upper end of the map's torque peak before it starts to diminish, so the car sustains this speed range comfortably in cruise control.

I would strongly recommend getting cruise control for use with the 6th (and also in 5th if hillier conditions) if you don't have it already - massively reduces operating fatigue in longer drives and the 6th reduces the noise.

The AMF/NTG combination is about 100-150rpm higher for the same speeds in 6th, but because of the nature of the car aerodynamics, engine spec, turbo and map it is a bit of a greyhound if for some reason you need to accelerate at motorway speeds but doesn't feel quite as punchy as the BHC a little lower down. I was rather shocked to see a number beginning with 9 in no time at all when getting past some middle-lane hogs because I had lost situational awareness and needed to come off at a subsequent junction, and needless to say backed off rather hurriedly after.
 
I forgot you guys in UK run some funky tyre sizes 🙈 If I calculate correctly your PTW setup means yu have 5% longer final gear ratio due to the tyre size. That means at 70 mph on standard 185/50R16 it is ca. 2200 RPM which is about 300-400 RPM drop compared to std gearing. And that is something I am aiming for 👍

Anyways I am still looking forward for experience of others with PTW gearbox ;)
 
Robin_Cox said:
Since I also have a PTW installed around the same time as @dj_efk I can also make some input. You need to prepare two small brackets to relocate 2 of the 3 gearbox cable carrier mounting points by a small distance (less than couple of inches). The A2 original driveshaft cups need to be unbolted from the 5-speed gearbox and swapped with the driveshaft cups in the new box - this relates to A2 driveshafts using larger mounting bolt sizes than the ones in the 6-speed boxes. WOM get the gearbox bell housing casing machined to reduce the 6mm deeper material (needed to accommodate DMF in the cars the gearbox is intended for and equivalent to the 6mm spacer used in 90hp Tdi A2s to accommodate the DMF in those cars compared to the 75hp with otherwise very similar gearbox) - although in my case the PTW swap was done without this reduction but with the normal single-mass flywheel and a new clutch kit. So this isn't essential but is probably a good idea. Other than that the gearbox swap was generally painless in real terms.

Edited to add - but the AMF / BHC 75hp engine absolutely has to be given a remap to increase the power / torque to a level that will support the increased gearing.
Click to expand...
I had the same, just put the box in without any machining, however you do need to use the CAYC starter motor that goes with the 6 speed as the starter hole is bigger, cheap 2nd hand on eBay, and being a stop start motor they spin it over noticeably faster on a cold morning
 
datsundrew said:
I had the same, just put the box in without any machining, however you do need to use the CAYC starter motor that goes with the 6 speed as the starter hole is bigger, cheap 2nd hand on eBay, and being a stop start motor they spin it over noticeably faster on a cold morning
Click to expand...
I have the CAYC starter on both of mine - forgot that in post #4 above. Higher rated power and a larger pinion by a couple of teeth than the original isn't it?
 
I'm about to start gathering the parts I need for the conversion. With the PTW-gearbox I can get the CRKB starter motor.

All the parts are taken from a 2013 Volkswagen Golf VII (AUA) 1.6 TDI BlueMotion 16V with a little over 300k kms.
 
Robin_Cox said:
I have the CAYC starter on both of mine - forgot that in post #4 above. Higher rated power and a larger pinion by a couple of teeth than the original isn't it?
Click to expand...
Is it possible to use a larger starter on the AMF with the original 5-speed box please? The CAYC version is 02Z911024H, which is a Bosch unit rated at 2.2KW. The original is a Bosch unit 085911023MX rated at 2.0KW, but most of the other reconditioned versions (which mine has) are only rated at 1.8KW.

I know these all have different flange diameters, so I guess if the hole in the original box is only 76.2mm (like the starter motor) then you're out of luck.

When the weather gets really cold, my AMF can struggle to make the first crank, but does always light up. I have checked voltage drops at all points from the battery to chassis to engine block, and there are no wiring problems. I also have a new quality monster battery, which also tests perfectly.

I'd love to do the 6-speed conversion, but have the early ABS so need a hybrid gearbox which makes it more complicated and expensive. Therefore it just needs a little more planning and saving!
 
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Mark Adams said:
Is it possible to use a larger starter on the AMF with the original 5-speed box please? The CAYC version is 02Z911024H, which is a Bosch unit rated at 2.2KW. The original is a Bosch unit 085911023MX rated at 2.0KW, but most of the other reconditioned versions (which mine has) are only rated at 1.8KW.

I know these all have different flange diameters, so I guess if the hole in the original box is only 66mm (like the starter motor) then you're out of luck.

When the weather gets really cold, my AMF can struggle to make the first crank, but does always light up. I have checked voltage drops at all points from the battery to chassis to engine block, and there are no wiring problems. I also have a new quality monster battery, which also tests perfectly.

I'd love to do the 6-speed conversion, but have the early ABS so need a hybrid gearbox which makes it more complicated and expensive. Therefore it just needs a little more planning and saving!
Click to expand...
I have no idea, I'm afraid.

One thought that comes to mind - instead of a hybrid gearbox, could you get one of the CAYC starters and see if there is some way to swap the flange / casing over from your existing starter to the CAYC working gubbins? I have no idea if there are differences in the rotor dimensions but as with alternators, there's a lot of commonality between different models in the range making me wonder if a swap like that could be undertaken.
 
Sounds like time to create "Project Frankenstarter" then. 😂

I've just ordered a very tidy CAYC starter from a well-known online market place for just £25, which will make a good starting point.

The original 02A 911 024 D (Bosch 0 986 017 460) 2KW starter has a 76.2mm Flange, whereas the CAYC 02Z 911 024 H 2.2KW (AUDI A3 8P 2011 1.6 TDI CAYC, Bosch 0 001 153 007) has a 79mm flange so it is unlikely to fit directly.

Just need to get my mitts on a genuine Bosch original unit now, and start measuring and taking things apart...

My existing unit is a reconditioned 1.8KW unit of unknown parentage, so this upgrade would offer a 22% increase in grunt if it turns out to be possible.
 
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" When the weather gets really cold, my AMF can struggle to make the first crank, but does always light up. I have checked voltage drops at all points from the battery to chassis to engine block, and there are no wiring problems. I also have a new quality monster battery, which also tests perfectly"

Mine used to be slow on cold mornings, it turned out to be the starter itself.
 
Bordos said:
I have to observe this thread to see if it will fit :)
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Think I should start a new thread for this, because it's not really related to the original title (so it looks like a hijack). I already have a nice shiny Bosch CAYC starter, so just need to get hold of a standard AMF Bosch unit. The new thread will be called Project Frankenstarter TDI obviously, when I get hold of an original unit. ;)
 
I bought a PTW 6-speed gearbox including the startermotor and the gearshift stick and cables of the donor car (Seat 1.6TDI). I compared the PTW box with the EWQ box. At first glance they seem remarkably alike. Measurements will have to show the actual differences if any. I will focus my attention mainly on the bellhousing and the position of the startermotor. I don't want to damage the starter gear ring on the flywheel of the AMF engine. Because the 6th gear has been mounted at the end of the gearbox, there seems to be little or (I hope not) no room against the chassis. I'll keep you posted.
 
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