Smoking Engine On Start Up.

jimbobaroo

jimbobaroo

Member
Hi Guys,

First of all a very belated "Happy New Year" to you all.

A problem with my 1.4 petrol A2 has slowly got worse and action is now required.
When starting up from cold, a cloud of light blue smoke is emitted from the exhaust for a short while and looks and smells like burning oil, and yes the engine is using oil a lot more than usual.
Not too happy as the car has done only 40k miles, last 20k done since the new recon engine was fitted over 2yrs ago.

Me thinks its the valve stem oil seals, but has anyone else encountered this problem and had it resolved ?
I've had one quote of £600 to have the job done - head off etc, - by an independent but me thinks thats a bit tooo much.

Is the head off job a DIY job ?? Expect you need " special tools " etc to do the work ???

Thanks for any info,

Bob.
 
Hi Bob
I don't know anyone who has had the cyl head off an A2 petrol but I guess it would take a full weekend for a competant diy mechanic. Not sure if there any special tools required for the head but there are a few required for the timing belt which needs removing/ replacing. As the coolant needs draining it would be sensible to replace the water pump while you are on.
If it were my car I would do the following checks before considering removal of the head
Compression test
Crancase breather for blockage (common problem on many cars but not sure if this is an issue on A2's)
If you get serious about doing this, let me know and I'll try and dig out more info on head removal.

Cheers Spike
 
Oh dear. Looks like my A2 is the only one in the owners club with this smoking problem.

Does anyone know if the problem described could be something else like a faulty fuel /air sensor. ?? I.E. delivering too much fuel when cold on start up ??

Cheers,
Bob.
 
Excess fuel usually gives black smoke - a diagnostic scan should pinpoint a faulty sensor if you think it may be an air / fuel problem
When the car is up to temperature, get someone to drive behind you and watch for blue smoke on the overrun as this is usually the time when most oil is sucked down the valve guides. Driving down a hill with your foot off the throttle would be the best test for this.

Cheers Spike
 
Hi Spike

Thanks for the feedback.
I considered a compression test but would it show if the valve stem oil seals are leaking?
I've considered doing the work myself, but as i don't get any 2 consecutive days off work, the job could turn into a long project and i don't think wifey would be too pleased not having her wheels.

Might have to bite the bullet and take it in somewhere.

( Wife says wait for weather to warm up then smoke won't show up so much then trade it in for a Fiat 500 !!!!!!???? ) She's got a point there , but not about the Fiat 500.....


Cheers again

Bob.
 
spike said:
Excess fuel usually gives black smoke - a diagnostic scan should pinpoint a faulty sensor if you think it may be an air / fuel problem
When the car is up to temperature, get someone to drive behind you and watch for blue smoke on the overrun as this is usually the time when most oil is sucked down the valve guides. Driving down a hill with your foot off the throttle would be the best test for this.

Cheers Spike
Click to expand...


Cheers Spike,

Will try the above at next opportunity.
I've done a Vag-com check myself , but nothing showed up on the engine fault codes etc.
Another line of thought ;-
Do you think if it was the head gasket it would smoke all the time when running ???


Cheers again,

Bob.
 
I know it's not the most positive response, but if it is only on start-up, or when the engine is cold, then it could very well be worn piston rings, which as they warm up, will expand slightly and so arrest any oil leakage past them.

A head gasket is a tricky one, depending on where it's failed, but it's unlikely to be the culprit here.

Cheers,

Mike
 
Skipton01 said:
I know it's not the most positive response, but if it is only on start-up, or when the engine is cold, then it could very well be worn piston rings, which as they warm up, will expand slightly and so arrest any oil leakage past them.

A head gasket is a tricky one, depending on where it's failed, but it's unlikely to be the culprit here.

Cheers,

Mike
Click to expand...


Hi Mike and thanks for that.

I have considered the rings before, but dismissed them as the recon engine has only done 20k miles.

BUT the Ford Dealer who fitted the recon engine under warranty did have a hell of a problem getting hold of a recon engine, which eventually came from the Netherlands - allegedly. But its making me think just how much the engine was "reconditioned" when it was done.

Yep , looks like a compression test is the next step.

Cheers
Bob.
 
As it was a dealer fitted engine, then you may well ahve some legal recourse to partial (if not full) conpensation in respect to repair costs, as after 20k miles, it is clearly not fit for purpose.

Whilst pursuing the compression testing and so on, why not approach the dealer to judge their attitude on the subject.

Cheers,

Mike
 
Jimbobaroo
You say the car has done 40k miles in total, and 20k on the current engine.
What happened to the first engine that you needed to change it at 20k?
From what you have stated I would suspect the valve guides, as oil would appear to be entering the cylinder area under gravity whilst parked up and then burnt upon startup.
A head gasket is an outside possiblity, but faiure of the head gasket in my experiance usually develops fairly rapidly into serious oil contamination of the cylinder area. Also, whilst I have had oil into the cylinder gasket failure (not on an Audi) it is more common to have cooling water/oil mixing with water entering the sump giving the appearance of an over filled sump and some horrible creamy sludge.
As the engine was a recon, a poor finish on one (or more) of the cylinders is also a possiblity resulting in wear on the cylinder bore(s). This would tend to burn oil all the time rather then at start up. The overrun test will show this.
A compression test is a must before taking heads off. If all is fine with the test, then look at breathers etc. before pulling big bits off like the head.
 
On some engines you can actually change the valve stem seals without taking the head off. Usually an adapter is screwed into the spark plug hole, and compressed air is fed in whilst the valve train is dismantled, and the seal can then be changed in situ.

I've only ever used this method on the old ford CVH engines though.
 
GBMSU said:
Jimbobaroo
You say the car has done 40k miles in total, and 20k on the current engine.
What happened to the first engine that you needed to change it at 20k?
From what you have stated I would suspect the valve guides, as oil would appear to be entering the cylinder area under gravity whilst parked up and then burnt upon startup.
A head gasket is an outside possiblity, but faiure of the head gasket in my experiance usually develops fairly rapidly into serious oil contamination of the cylinder area. Also, whilst I have had oil into the cylinder gasket failure (not on an Audi) it is more common to have cooling water/oil mixing with water entering the sump giving the appearance of an over filled sump and some horrible creamy sludge.
As the engine was a recon, a poor finish on one (or more) of the cylinders is also a possiblity resulting in wear on the cylinder bore(s). This would tend to burn oil all the time rather then at start up. The overrun test will show this.
A compression test is a must before taking heads off. If all is fine with the test, then look at breathers etc. before pulling big bits off like the head.
Click to expand...

Hi GBMSU

The problem with the original engine was that one of the timing belt pulleys siezed, throwing the timing out etc, and at 60mph it made a mess of the head, pistons and block - luckily 2 weeks before the warranty ran out.

Engine oil etc looks ok, no sludge etc.
Compression test next step .

Thanks for the feedback.

Bob.
 
Skipton01 said:
As it was a dealer fitted engine, then you may well ahve some legal recourse to partial (if not full) conpensation in respect to repair costs, as after 20k miles, it is clearly not fit for purpose.

Whilst pursuing the compression testing and so on, why not approach the dealer to judge their attitude on the subject.

Cheers,

Mike
Click to expand...

Hi Mike,

Good idea, but, unfortunately for me the Ford Dealer I bought the car from was Dixon Ford who went bust last year.

But l will find out the recon engine warranty details and get intouch with the engine supplier. Crickey ! I've just remembered , even the recon engine had to go back for a new set of hydraulic tappets shortly after l got the car back !!!??? l forgot all about that episode !!! Maybe its all tied in together in oneway or another.???

Definately look into it now. Cheers for that Mike.

Bob.
 
convert said:
On some engines you can actually change the valve stem seals without taking the head off. Usually an adapter is screwed into the spark plug hole, and compressed air is fed in whilst the valve train is dismantled, and the seal can then be changed in situ.

I've only ever used this method on the old ford CVH engines though.
Click to expand...


Hi Convert,

Thanks for that info. I see you're in Sheffield too. Can you recommend anywhere to take the old A2 other than Gilders ??

Cheers Bob.
 
Hi all,

Just thought l'd give an update on the smoking engine problem.
Finally got round to giving the engine a compression test last week at a local independant ( Nic Thompson, - German Car specailist, Sheffield. )
On removing the spark plug from No.4 cylinder we discovered the spark plug hole was third full of oil. Nic presumed this might be the problem with the smoke etc. Apparently looks like oil has leaked from the seal between the camshafts housing and the cyl. head into the hole and down past the plugs porcelain somehow into the cylinder.

Further investigation we could see that No.4 piston etc was heavily coked up and the compression reading was well up - nearly 200 compared to the other three reading about 150 to 160.
The oil was cleaned up and new plugs fitted - Bosch Platinums. All engine settings reset on his high tech. stuff and one week on theres no smoke on start up and the engines running a lot sweeter and more responsive than ever before.

Just got to keep an eye on the oil in the sparkplug hole until l get round to having the cams off and resealed etc.

So it doesn't look like the valve stem oil seals after all.

ALSO

after 18 months of the irritating 3 beeps from the ABS warning system, finally got round to replacing the faulty Lateral Acceleration Sensor unit (£175 at David Underwood Swift Performance ). Easy enough to find and fit yourself, providing you've got the tackle to 'zero-in' the new unit once its fitted in place.

Its like driving a new A2 now. Love it.

Bob.
 
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Hi ULP,

Cheers for that. No mention was made about the recon engine really, but l still must get in touch with the recon engine supplier -VEGE- to see if they're willing to help in anyway.
They'll probably say its down to the garage who fitted it, Dixon Ford - who have now gone bust.

As for the wheels, - as the wifey is the main driver and main culprit for the scratched alloys l'll leave them for now.
But saying that I did put another scratch on the OSR wheelarch last week courtesy of a wooden fence down a dark alleyway -- don't ask.

Bob.
 
Blue smoke

I would definetely test the the compression side of life first as a duff head gasket generally gives out white smoke clearly visible while driving.Damage around the head area due to cracking etc will result in a loss of power (while driving at speed) a cloud of white smoke and power back again (been there with that one:( )Blue smoke generally dictates oil in the bore so after a comp test I would be inclined to look at rings or guides or both which will result in a new head gasket anyway (don't put the old one back on).Fuel is most definetely black and unmissable while driving and in your pocket.Either way it is not looking to good:(
 
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