No click or change to dashboard lights. Literally no reaction to turning the key to position three.
Are the solenoids replaceable separately nor is it new starter time?
TDI intermittent starting
- Thread starter James23
- Start date
Are the solenoids replaceable separately nor is it new starter time?
AndyP
Member
Should be separate, it's mounted on top of the starter motor. Generally not too expensive and quite DIYable.
Yes I remember seeing it now.
I'll give it a go cheers.
AndyP
Member
A good point, solenoids can cost only £20-ish though. My thought on bumping the starter motor and brushes etc was that if it's stuck in one place then it will stay stuck until moved, whereas in this case, just trying again/later can work. Of course, taking both off and testing on the bench is the best solution.
Howey
Member
Are you confident the body earth on the additional earth is good? I say this as prior to installing the one i did in my thread (1.4 TDI None Start...) i tried to fit one to one of shocker top bolts and same bracket on engine as you but this didnt work at all, i then ran an earth from battery neg to engine block and it started so then i fitted then one in my thread and had no further problems
How will I know?
I can't find your thread but where is a good place on the block to connect to? I'll try another one.
An earth cable thick enough that's long enough to go to the battery would cost quite a bit
audifan
A2OC Donor
In the engine bay between the cam belt tensioner and the body side of the engine mount or a bolt that holds the brake reservoir on like I did.
A 12v bulb connected to 2 lengths of wire. disconnect the new earth you put on from the block and connect that end to one of the wires on the bulb and touch the other wire to a positive such as on the starter. If the bulb lights you know the car side of your earth is good, reconnect it then use that point as the earth and repeat the test.
A 12v bulb connected to 2 lengths of wire. disconnect the new earth you put on from the block and connect that end to one of the wires on the bulb and touch the other wire to a positive such as on the starter. If the bulb lights you know the car side of your earth is good, reconnect it then use that point as the earth and repeat the test.
If that's correct then it's probably barrel/ignition relay - something that prevents switching on of the starter motor. But worth observing the dashboard closely - I missed a subtle sign first time.
The battery warning light signals presence of voltage at the starter motor. When key is in pos II it should light up bright. When in pos III and cranking it should stay on though you will see it flicker a bit.
- if turning key to pos III makes the battery light go out / dim significantly BUT the other lights on dashboard remain bright, then you have a bad starter motor earth. In my case I also noticed that in pos II the battery light was flickering ever so slightly
- if turning key to pos III makes the battery light go out / dim AS WELL AS the other lights on dashboard this indicates weak battery or poor connection to battery either +ve supply side or -ve (earth).
I'll also second Howey in saying that a makeshift second earth is not reliable. I tried that using a heavy duty jump start lead with zero effect, but cleaning up the actual starter earth behind the n/s headlamp worked first time.
Earth tag below NS light?
Hi, Can someone tell me the exact location where the large Earth tag connection is supposed to be below the passengers side headlamp? Cause it looks like I don't have one. I have an intermittent misfire and I'd thought I try this mythical creature first. Photos would be good! I...
www.a2oc.net
So to update this as I hate when people don't update threads when something is fixed..
After listening VERY carefully I noticed there was in fact a very faint thud from the starter when turning the key. So assume it was a starter solenoid problem.
Replaced the starter motor with a new one and all good now.
Wasted my time doing the ignition switch, ignition barrel, earth's etc.
After listening VERY carefully I noticed there was in fact a very faint thud from the starter when turning the key. So assume it was a starter solenoid problem.
Replaced the starter motor with a new one and all good now.
Wasted my time doing the ignition switch, ignition barrel, earth's etc.
I'm beginning to think that every A2 I've got has a slightly dodgy starter earth.
I've had all three of our A2s misbehave on starting in the past month - the latest being my grey A2 with the PTW box. Since that was fitted, the new A3 starter motor has always been instant. About a week ago since the temperature has dropped I noticed the car was beginning to struggle a bit on starting - which was a bit of a surprise given that the car has an 18 month old Bosch S5 of the correct specification. As I'd already bought a Varta for the project car at the beginning of the month I bought another one in from Tayna and fitted it last weekend. Within a couple of days the starting was getting more laboured again, and finally yesterday (after 3 days without being used), the starter wouldn't even turn. Yet colour DIS said the battery resting voltage was high 12s in the first ignition position.
I decided at this point to have a go at the starter earth (having located it last week but chickened out on having a go) today despite the chilly wind - whipped out the passenger side headlight, and using the 4 inch extension on my bigger socket set managed to loosen off and then remove the earth bolt. First thing noticed was that the last few turns of the thread were coated thickly in white oxide of some description, and the small washer under the large flange under the bolt featured a number of scorch marks and dimples that looked like small spot-welds matched by similar ones on the bolt head suggesting that electricity has been hitting a few potholes on its way back to the battery. A combination of some 40 grit paper and then eventually a sanding head on the Dremel (I kept changing weapons until I found something that was easy to use in the slightly confined space below / by the brake & A/C pipes) was used to clean up the earthing ring, and then also the earthing surface.
At this point it started to chuck down with sleet so I decided to put it all back together and get the bonnet back on. Hopped into the car, turned the key and instant high speed starting again.
When I get the chance I'm going to do the same on the other two cars even though they are running - new battery or not, the improvement in starter performance (and the fact that the car ran immediately though it wouldn't yesterday) was such that I am now a firm convert on what now appears to be almost a piece of basic maintenance.
I've had all three of our A2s misbehave on starting in the past month - the latest being my grey A2 with the PTW box. Since that was fitted, the new A3 starter motor has always been instant. About a week ago since the temperature has dropped I noticed the car was beginning to struggle a bit on starting - which was a bit of a surprise given that the car has an 18 month old Bosch S5 of the correct specification. As I'd already bought a Varta for the project car at the beginning of the month I bought another one in from Tayna and fitted it last weekend. Within a couple of days the starting was getting more laboured again, and finally yesterday (after 3 days without being used), the starter wouldn't even turn. Yet colour DIS said the battery resting voltage was high 12s in the first ignition position.
I decided at this point to have a go at the starter earth (having located it last week but chickened out on having a go) today despite the chilly wind - whipped out the passenger side headlight, and using the 4 inch extension on my bigger socket set managed to loosen off and then remove the earth bolt. First thing noticed was that the last few turns of the thread were coated thickly in white oxide of some description, and the small washer under the large flange under the bolt featured a number of scorch marks and dimples that looked like small spot-welds matched by similar ones on the bolt head suggesting that electricity has been hitting a few potholes on its way back to the battery. A combination of some 40 grit paper and then eventually a sanding head on the Dremel (I kept changing weapons until I found something that was easy to use in the slightly confined space below / by the brake & A/C pipes) was used to clean up the earthing ring, and then also the earthing surface.
At this point it started to chuck down with sleet so I decided to put it all back together and get the bonnet back on. Hopped into the car, turned the key and instant high speed starting again.
When I get the chance I'm going to do the same on the other two cars even though they are running - new battery or not, the improvement in starter performance (and the fact that the car ran immediately though it wouldn't yesterday) was such that I am now a firm convert on what now appears to be almost a piece of basic maintenance.
If it is becoming a common fault with our vintage A2s, maybe the topic deserves a 'sticky' somewhere, under Maintenance perhaps. I would also re-iterate the point made elsewhere on this forum that it is impossible to tell from just a visual inspection of the earth point whether it's in good condition. Mine looked great on the outside, not a spot of corrosion on it. It was only when the bolt was out that I could see the layer of grey oxidey stuff on the surfaces. Might also be a good idea to seal the repaired connection with something water-repellent e.g. copper grease.
It's been a couple of weeks since I fixed this starter motor earth problem, and quite aside from rectifying the actual problem of not starting, I noticed other improvements
- it runs so much better, engine sounds better, there is more power under acceleration and cruising in 5th. I guess the deterioration happened more or less gradually and therefore wasn't so obvious, but the step improvement is very clear
- intermittent central locking failures have not recurred since, normally I was seeing these at least once a week and more often in cold and wet weather like we have now
- idling speed is back down from 1000rpm to what it used to be at ~800rpm
I am hoping other gremlins won't be coming back also
- spurious ABS, power steering dash lights, maybe too early to say after just two weeks but so far so good
- climate control unit locking up in MAX airflow after a failed first start when immediately followed with another (successful) start
- step changes in headlight brightness, nothing major just enough to be noticeable
I suspected already that a bad starter earth may indirectly affect the car's electronics. Couldn't reconstruct enough of the schematic from the current flow diagrams for the A2 in ELSAWIN but it's clear that the starter motor earth is shared with the alternator and affects battery charging, quite possibly more besides. According to this: https://axleaddict.com/auto-repair/Bad-Engine-Ground-Symptoms-and-Diagnosis
It's been a couple of weeks since I fixed this starter motor earth problem, and quite aside from rectifying the actual problem of not starting, I noticed other improvements
- it runs so much better, engine sounds better, there is more power under acceleration and cruising in 5th. I guess the deterioration happened more or less gradually and therefore wasn't so obvious, but the step improvement is very clear
- intermittent central locking failures have not recurred since, normally I was seeing these at least once a week and more often in cold and wet weather like we have now
- idling speed is back down from 1000rpm to what it used to be at ~800rpm
I am hoping other gremlins won't be coming back also
- spurious ABS, power steering dash lights, maybe too early to say after just two weeks but so far so good
- climate control unit locking up in MAX airflow after a failed first start when immediately followed with another (successful) start
- step changes in headlight brightness, nothing major just enough to be noticeable
I suspected already that a bad starter earth may indirectly affect the car's electronics. Couldn't reconstruct enough of the schematic from the current flow diagrams for the A2 in ELSAWIN but it's clear that the starter motor earth is shared with the alternator and affects battery charging, quite possibly more besides. According to this: https://axleaddict.com/auto-repair/Bad-Engine-Ground-Symptoms-and-Diagnosis
More worryingly:
I had noticed also that gear change would intermittently become difficult, then just as suddenly it would be back to normal. I am hoping no lasting damage was done..
Howey
Member
Wonderful how the earth seems to have rectified so many issues, in theory its supprising it could possibly benefit so many problems but you cant argue with first hand experience which is very similar in how my fix of the injector loom (tightening injector connectors) seems to have cured my ABS/TC intermittant fault and i dont think it should have been able too, but a few thousand miles on have had no mils on.....?