Updated Advertising Rules

I agree James.

I think unfortunately this fun forum with the opportunity to help people out, recommend good workmanship and share enthusiasm for our little cars has changed into pettiness.

The new rules allows you to announce if you had work done by an individual but not a company/business ?

It does come down to freedom of speech unfortunately. As long as no harm is done, what's the harm in announcing who you trust your baby with? Business or individual?

Feels like dictatorship to me... But hey ho. I'm here mostly for the socials to share my enthusiasm with fellow A2 lovers.
Democracies have rules too. It doesn't make them dictatorships.

As people saw I "liked" the change that James did to his signature. It still said "Serviced by A2cars limited" and that is fine. So how are we preventing people from saying where they get their parts or servicing done. It is just that full on advertising other people's businesses can cause problems. All businesses can have problems, it happens all of the time and if we recommend a business and a member has a problem (it happens) that can lead to all kinds of issues.

People are also missing an important difference here. The business being advertised by James is actually one that is banned on here. The reasons for the ban are very involved and we don't wish to broadcast those reasons. It would not be helpful to anyone if we did. So please can we ask for some trust in what we are doing. It is not petty or restricting free speech, as I say James can say who does the work on his car (his signature does that now) but over endorsing a banned business and asking others to do the same, is not on. It goes against our ban.

Steve B
 
Is there something in the air today....

I really dont understand any of this but surly when you post up a thread about your own A2 with photos and discribe all the work that has been done in your thread, you mention there who done the work and praise said person , company who did the work for everyone to see
That is not a problem and nobody said it was. That is not advertising another persons business. That is perfectly OK. I do it too.

But saying "proudly maintained by ...." In bold and then asking others to do the same is blatantly advertising another persons business.

One of the things I like most about this forum is that we don't have any banner adverts or any other form of advertising. To me that is a positive. So advertising via a signature is advertising. Saying that "cruise fitted by X" is NOT advertising. So please can we not overreact. This is simply us having a "no advert" policy for valid reasons. People bypassing that by advertising on someone else's behalf is circumventing a core rule that we have and have always had.

This is getting blown out of proportion I repeat, look at James's revised signature, that states "Serviced by A2Cars limited" and we are fine with that. It is no longer an advert.

Steve B
 
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I'm not sure I understand what's going on here. I thought you're just not allowed to post who did your work in your signature?

And don't we have an entirely separate section of the forum that allows you to rate dealers? There's even a whole thread dedicated to A2 Cars Feedback.

If someone likes the work that has been done to a particular car, then surely they'll just pm to ask for a recommendation?
You CAN post who did your work on your car. That is not advertising it is merely factual information.

Yes the the dealers thread can be used, that is what it is there for, honest feedback. (That too is not advertising)

steve B
 
Sorry steve i think you miss under stood what i was getting at. no pun intended

as my meaning was why all the fuss with adding said details to your signature as it does not matter when its on your thread anyway.

Thanks for the heads up though as i can see whats happening now

How's this signiture?

Makes two of us steve and dont it feel good knowing youv put all the hard work into your own pride and joy
 
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Thanks Gary, my mistake but we are all grown ups here so we understand each other in the end.

Steve B
 
Tony,

that is completely unacceptable. I liked the fact that James corrected his signature.
If you didn't know why I liked it why assume the worst????

that is not the way I work and you know it. I am as fair and helpful as anyone can be.

What else could I be liking on that post????
I am sure that James is not leaving? Why would anyone leave just because they don't agree with the rules.

James and I get on well, or at least I thought we did.


I find your assumption baffling in the very least.

Sad to see bickering like this over basic and logical rules.

Steve B


Steve,

I don’t really see what you deem to be unacceptable in my post. I simply asked a question which, given James’ reaction, you are dutybound to answer. There has been no assumption on my part, bad or otherwise. The onus rests on you to ensure your comments are not ambiguous or relay a skewed message. To my mind a comment like “thank you James” would have been more appropriate. Remember, the “like” relates specifically to the post.

James’ post is very clear in its message – he is saying he’s had enough and is voting with his feet (membership) and your remarks have offended him - you should take note!

Furthermore, I feel that the message James is sending has been misinterpreted – yes, he has used the text speak and parts purchasing as an example but I believe that James is alluding to the threat of and application of infractions, more importantly, the limitations placed on what a member can and cannot display within the signature area. Whilst there is consensus that certain basic rules must apply, don’t lose sight that the signature area and avatar are the only personal real estate areas within the forum where members can display any information they wish to share on a more permanent basis. It’s a mistake to deny members this option especially as the forum relies on voluntary member contributions for its existence.

Finally, I make mention that other members share the sentiments expressed by James. From personal discussions with members, comments like “the forum is stuffy and cliquey”, “discussion is smothered by Birchall”and “I thought Birchall owned the forum” point to a polarising effect you have on the forum. Certainly you should have noticed the lack of posting from several long standing members, myself included. Congratulations on your 10K.

Blue skies
tony
 
... So advertising via a signature is advertising ...
... Saying that "cruise fitted by X" is NOT advertising ...
... look at James's revised signature, that states "Serviced by A2Cars limited" and we are fine with that. It is no longer an advert.

Steve B

My turn to be baffled.

May I suggest that the new team (congratulations) address this issue as a matter of urgency and publish a clear directive. Perhaps, in a fair and transparent manner "the team" should refer to the membership via a poll. Certainly more trivial aspects have been polled in the past?

blue skies
tony
 
Hi Tony,

In the best interests of the club I am not sure that bickering in the open like this helps anyone.

I have done my best to heal the rift with you personally (although I am completely baffled as to what I have done to deserve you "blanking" me.

I sent you a completely apologetic PM many months ago asking if we could put this all behind us and shake hands. I apologosed sincerely even though I have no idea what I have done to you. Unreservedly. And you did not even bother to respond at all. So I have tried to make things better, what have you done please? at least a reply to my apologetic PM would have been a start. But for some reason and for some time now you completely blanked all of my communications. I asked for a quote for my back axle TWICE face to face at the duo 12 months apart, NOTHING. I emailed and PM'd you about it and NOTHING. So who is trying to heal the rift?

I have asked the new team to make it their number one priority to TRY to heal the rift between you and the club, again for the benefit of the members. So I am hoping that you will do that. The members don't need this to become any worse than it is and so we will do what we can to see if there is any common ground, but since you are on here attacking me again, it doesn't sound like you want to resolve this.

As for the "like" on Jame's post, I have explained on here that I was on holiday and in a restaurant and I wanted to show that I appreciated his actions of correcting his signature. I also explained that James and I have had no issues with each other and so I was baffled as to why he took umbrage. So I sent an immediate PM to him wholeheartedly apologising for the misunderstanding, I did not receive a reply and so I sent an even MORE apologetic PM to him trying to explain the misunderstanding and still no reply.


What I find more baffling is that you are speaking for him and yet again making assumtions.


And your closing comment on the reply above speaks volumes.

You say
"Finally, I make mention that other members share the sentiments expressed by James. From personal discussions with members, comments like “the forum is stuffy and cliquey”, “discussion is smothered by Birchall”and “I thought Birchall owned the forum” point to a polarising effect you have on the forum. Certainly you should have noticed the lack of posting from several long standing members, myself included. Congratulations on your 10K.

How come these comments have never been made public on here? How can we react in a positive way and correct such situtations if nobody states it openly.

If my enthusiasm boils over then yet again I completely apologise without reservation.

And your closing comment of "congratulations on your 10K" I will take in good heart, although some may think that it is a backhanded compliment considering the remarks you make in the previous sentence. But I give people the benefit of the doubt, unlike you, so thank you for the congratulations.


The saddest thing of all is that you cannot see that your post inflames the rift rather than helps repair it, what about the members please. We can continue this in private if you want to continue with your criticism of my enthusiasm.

I did not post the mention of the 10K expecting any response in support, so if people have seemed reluctant to respond positively I "Listen" to that and so I act to try and make this place better for the members. What are you doing in that respect? apart from posting negative comments?

I would ask that you post any response to this via PM so that the members don't have to put up with this negative atmosphere, but I wonder if you would do that or claim the "free speech" card, regardles of the effect on members.

Finally please pont out any harm I have caused to you or any members on here (or via PM prefferably if you want) and I will do the same (Only via PM to prevent any damage to others). Lets see who is trying to heal the rift !

Steve B
 
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My turn to be baffled.

May I suggest that the new team (congratulations) address this issue as a matter of urgency and publish a clear directive. Perhaps, in a fair and transparent manner "the team" should refer to the membership via a poll. Certainly more trivial aspects have been polled in the past?

blue skies
tony


The rules are clear and also we operate Moderate Light and so I did not want us to become petty over the wording.

Asking for members to add the same to their signature was hardly someone just wanting to say how pleased they were with your service. That was blatent advertising of someone else's services.

Why go to a poll when nothing has changed, this always has been a "No advertising " forum, we have not changed anything, we just imposed that rule.

To try and make the rule clearer we explained them and they are clear enough. You can say "serviced by...." or Cruise fitted by...." they are facts.

But multiple people being ASKED to put something on a signature *EDIT And advertising a banned member at that*, was a challenge to the team and that is not the way this club operates, that was a clear attempt at advertising.

I know for a fact that you have asked for other A2 services that have been mentioned in other peoples signatures to be removed in the past, so it is strange how you apply the oposite when it is your business that is being advertised. We apply the rule evenly and fairly. People who offer a service that benefits members are of course allowed to mention it, for the benefit of the members. But the "no advertising" approach has always been a part of this club.

If what we are doing is not in line with the member's wishes I will gladly have a vote on whether the members want me to stop what I am doing and step down, a vote of no confidence.

To me that causes splits in the membership as does voting on every issue. But happy to stand down if I am harming this great club. The ONE THING I always do is to TRY and make this place a happy and helpful place to be. I cannot please all of the people all of the time but I would hope that my motives are clear and always have been. I have the utmost respect for this club and its members and have never acted in a way that would harm it, in any way. If enough members feel this to be not true then I will step down for the benefit of the club. But can I ask you something please. Will you promise to do your best to heal the rift and return and support the club as it has supported you over the years?


This is a serious offer, I stand down if I am an unpopular choice as chairman.

I am sorry if my enthusiasm has been misunderstood by some members, but I wear my heart on my sleeve and I cannot change that.

Steve B
 
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I'd not seen this before until today. I only know one side of this issue, but I do think it is causing a damaging effect to this board. There is clearly a personal issue going on, and it should not be brought onto a club forum at all. I find it quite embarrassing to all involved that it has come this far, and I personally feel like I will spend less time on this forum as a result.

As a comparison, I frequent another forum for a different marque, and have continued to do so, despite not owning a car from that brand for the past 4 years, such is the community in place there. I have only ever seen something like this blow up once before in the past, and it resulted in a club disbanding. I would encourage everyone with any influence to draw a line under this and put it in the past.
 
Can I point out that Tony was never silenced by the team, one of his member accesses was removed.

As Tony has just proved he is more than able to post help and advice on here, the team never stopped that.

Unfortunately Tony has decided that he will use his A2OC access to post negative threads instead of helpful ones.

So those members that wanted us to not ban Tony can see that we haven't banned Tony at all, he has always had access to this great club. He has always been aboe to post, but we did hope that he would help members on here with technical help and advice, in return for the support he was given by this club and it was a lot of support too.

I am sorry that our "dirty laundery" is now being washed in public, but up to now we have held back from revealing the reasons for the ban. Some of those reasons are becoming more obvious now. We want harmony and support for the members, we have not had that from Tony in a long while.

He has bad-mouthed his competirors time and time again and that is just not acceptable.
He went back on his word to resolve an issue with a team member, the deal was agreed and followed but Tony renaged on it.

It was a culmination of these things that left us no choice but to impose the ban, but as I say, for the benefit of the members Tony was left with his full access to help and support the members.



Steve B
 
If what we are doing is not in line with the member's wishes I will gladly have a vote on whether the members want me to stop what I am doing and step down, a vote of no confidence.

This is a serious offer, I stand down if I am an unpopular choice as chairman.


Right I would normally keep a comment like this to pm but here goes. I am not a moderator but care deeply about this club so I don't care if this is over-stepping the boundry.

Steve, don't be daft....and hasty, you are an excellent candidate for chairman, your passion for the A2 and this club is unquestionable and I think you are the best person to steer the ship.

Tony in my experience, you are a truly nice guy. You and Petra made me feel so welcome at my first social that I felt like I was amongst family rather than being at a club get together.

Please guys for the benefit of the club, take this indoors and keep it to pm. I think this thread should be deleted and re-posted when things have been resolved.
 
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I would encourage everyone with any influence to draw a line under this and put it in the past.


We are quite prepared to try and do that but as you say it seems to have resorted to Tony attacking me personally for my passion for this club.

This has been bubbling under the surface for a long time and can I ppoint out that I asked for this to move to PM myself, but Tony has never responded to PMs from me. Even very apologetic ones.

I am sorry that you feel this way, but we are very genuinely trying to heal the rift and then this happens.

Steve B
 
Right I would normally keep a comment like this to pm but here goes. I am not a moderator but care deeply about this club so I don't care if this is over-stepping the boundry.

Steve, don't be stupid and hasty, you are an excellent candidate for chairman, your passion for the A2 and this club is unquestionable and I at least think you are the best person to steer the ship.

Tony in my experience, you are a truly nice guy. You and Petra made me feel so welcome at my first social that I felt like I was amongst family rather than being at a club get together.

Please guys for the benefit of the club, take this indoors and keep it to pm. I think this thread should be deleted and re-posted when things have been resolved.
I agree, I know that Tony is a nice guy, that is what makes this even more frustrating, the first action I did when made chairman was to appoint a team that included some fans of Tony and some that are completely neutral, to ensure that we have balance and so the best possible chance of finding a way to heal the rift and have Tony back supporting the club again. But then this happens, I WANT it to take place in PMs and asked for that in my first response, what more can I do?

If I am not doing this right and it sounds like I may have it wrong, then I am serious I don't want to harm the club, so I will step down, I meant it.

But I would like to know who COULD fix this? Inhad hoped that a face to face witn Tony by two of the team that have no "negative history" with him would be our best chance, but now that is looking to be pipedreams.

Sorry, but this HAS to stop, one way or another.

Steve B
 
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I'm sorry, but at no point did I say that or anything to that effect


Sorry, genuinely.

But you did say that it has become personal and I read your statement of "There is clearly a personal issue going on" as being that but I did misintepret that and as I say, I am sorry for that.

Steve B
 
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