VEGOIL as fuel

hi guys, I'm converting my 1.4 tdi to vegoil.
As soon as I'll finish, if you like I could post some pictures.
Anyone with any experience on an A2?


Audi A2 1.4 tdi 75hp 155.000 km with ecu remapped to.. I don't know..
 

Eddy

Member
Thin the oil with White spirit or acetone so it will burn a lot cleaner and take some stress off the pumps.
I take it you doing a twin tank conversion ?
 

DJ 190

A2OC Donor
Spike, that link you've given shows "no matches" .... I have read about veg-oil conversions .... you do need dual-tanks and an investment of about £1700 - £2000. You need fuel pre-heating, as well .... Cheap running, though ...

David
 

YorkshireHill

A2OC Donor
Just to echo what Dan has said regarding the potential hazards of making bio-diesel, I would urge anyone to consider this very cautiously.

I have absolutely no experience or knowledge in what is involved in making bio-diesel however I would like to contribute this piece of anecdotal evidence.

I work with individuals with progressive neurological illnesses and on two occasions people have told me they believe their illness resulted from this type of occupation. I am not aware of any validated research but I feel I wanted to pass on my experience of these discussions.

Hilary
 

chubbybrown

Member
Tried some Veg oil just to clean out the fuel tank as its more viscous so creating a swirl and sucked all the fuel out via its vortex.
I would advise changing your fuel filter as mine was absolutely shocking after trying it,
then didn't use it anymore due to reading about oil being needed to be flushed out of chambers and away from seals.
Car was far quieter when running though,mpg unaffected
 
I'm currently using a single tank, a fuel heater and a fuel filter heater, with a mix 50% diesel 50%oil.

But I'm finishing the installation of a self made twink tank conversion: tank in the booth, motorcycle oil cooler inside the tank used as oil heather, oil pump, heated filter, two solenoid valves, thermometer inside the car, oil tank level, switch for diesel/oil/purge purpose...
 

nod

Member
Hi Folks I'm really keen on lowering my carbon footprint. So I'm looking at electric cars, conversion to electric and running on veg oil. Has anyone used a twin tank system? Cheers nod
 

ecoangel

Active Member
Plenty on previous threads about ev conversion and on German forum. It's not presently financially viable cf a second hand i3, e Golf, eup!, Leaf...

Also look up Elsbett WVO conversions - they invented PD system that VW bought.

Tell you MP and Council to support 10 million UK diesel drivers to lean on oil companies to supply #hvo made from waste not food for massive reduction in pollution and higher mpg #Helsinkibuses
 

nod

Member
Plenty on previous threads about ev conversion and on German forum. It's not presently financially viable cf a second hand i3, e Golf, eup!, Leaf...

Also look up Elsbett WVO conversions - they invented PD system that VW bought.

Tell you MP and Council to support 10 million UK diesel drivers to lean on oil companies to supply #hvo made from waste not food for massive reduction in pollution and higher mpg #Helsinkibuses
Thanks for the info. The more I look at this, carbon footprint reduction stuff, the more I think there is a huge opportunity for someone to cash in on the use of wvo by diesel drivers wanting to lower bills and footprint. I'm definitely going to try using it myself in the tdi90 and may look into it as a business....
 

Kaz

Member
Theres no issue on running the car on 50% veg, and 50% diesel - I have a friend who has done this over on the biodiesel forum on a polo with the same engine with no issues - I have just got my car back from the garage, and that's what I will be doing - in fact, I will use more veg in the summer months. White spirit or acetone shouldn't be used - you should add 5% petrol if you are single tanking it - the car will run on 100% veg oil in the summer as this is what my friend did - but I wont use more then 75% veg, 25% diesel for my own car
 

nod

Member
Hi Kaz, Have you tried the veg oil yet? the reading i've done suggests that the PD engine doesn't like running on veg due to the high pressure, and twin tanking and some other modifications are needed for it to work long term. Interested in hearing your experiences. cheers nod
 

AndyP

Member
I have been experimenting with 10% veg oil in my TDi90 and it seems to make no difference except for the engine being slightly quieter.
 

Kaz

Member
https://www.a2oc.net/community/index.php?threads/back-in-an-a2-ebay-project.37591/page-2#post-353532 is my thread on my project car

Hi Kaz, Have you tried the veg oil yet? the reading i've done suggests that the PD engine doesn't like running on veg due to the high pressure, and twin tanking and some other modifications are needed for it to work long term. Interested in hearing your experiences. cheers nod
I have put £20 of diesel in with 15 litres of veg oil (£3.50 for 5 litres at Tesco works out to 70p a litre) and have done almost 330 miles - am anticipating around 350 miles+ on the tank - not sure if this is good or bad for these engines but I have also got a JDD box (and no remap) on the car, and a big crack on the front bumper where the black part meets the coloured so would create some drag but I'm not sure how much. Also, the air filter hasn't been changed in the service as I found it in the boot!
 

ecoangel

Active Member
Be very careful with SVO and WVO in PD engines. There are serious engine consequences if ignored:

"The properties of canola oil and diesel are very similar, except a significant difference in viscosity, with canola oil having 12 times the viscosity of diesel. Even after heating to around 80 deg C it is still six times as viscous as diesel. This leads to problems with flow of oils from the fuel tank to the engine, blockages in filters and subsequent engine power losses. Even if preheating is used to lower the viscosity, difficulties may still be encountered with starting due to the temperatures required for oils to give off ignitable vapours. Further, engines can suffer coking and gumming which leads to sticking of piston rings due to multi-bonded compounds undergoing pyrolyses. Polyunsaturated fatty acids also undergo oxidation in storage causing gum formation and at high temperatures where complex oxidative and thermal polymerisation can occur.

To date there have been many problems found with using vegetable oils directly in diesel engines (especially in direct injection engines).

1. Coking and trumpet formation on the injectors to such an extent that fuel atomisation does not occur properly or is even prevented as a result of plugged orifices,
2. Carbon deposits,
3. Oil ring sticking,
4. Thickening and gelling of the lubricating oil as a result of contamination by vegetable oils, and
5. Lubricating problems.

Other disadvantages to the use of vegetable oils and especially animal fats, are the high viscosity (about 11 to 17 times higher than diesel fuel), lower volatilities content which causes the formation of deposits in engines due to incomplete combustion and incorrect vaporisation characteristics... At high temperatures there can be some problems with polymerisation of unsaturated fatty acids, this is where cross-linking starts to occur between other molecules, causing very large agglomerations to be formed and consequently gumming occurs.

Although some diesel engines can run pure vegetable oils, turbocharged direct injection engines such as trucks are prone to many problems.

-- From "Research into Biodiesel Kinetics and Catalyst Development", by Adam Karl Khan, Department of Chemical Engineering, University of Queensland, 17 May 2002 -- Acrobat file, 432Kb:
http://www.cheque.uq.edu.au/ugrad/chee4001/CHEE400102/Adam_Khan_Thesis.pdf "
 

TAABVW

Member
Hi there,

I have run Elsbett 1 and 2 tank conversions in 6 cars for over 15 years. 2 A4s 2 A6s an A2 all 1 tank and a Merc V6 CDI 2007 2 tank. I must have done close to 500,000 miles on WVO. I have not had a single vegetable oil related mechanical problem in any of these cars. Converted properly and carefully they run completely reliably on 100% WVO all year round (though I do keep them in an underground garage in the winter). One of my current veggy cars is an A2 TDI90. It does 60-70mpg (normally over 600 miles on a tank) and runs much quieter. Power is unaffected when warm though a bit sluggish when cold.

Downs sides: Oil changes at 4500 miles. Fuel filter changes at 13500 miles (every 3rd oil change). Sourcing the oil can be tricky. Can't do more than about 30,000 miles per year legally. Importantly thats 30,000 miles per household, not per car.

Having done all the conversions myself I have a lot of experience and quite a personal relationship with Elsbetts ex chief engineer. Elsbett went bust some years ago but the Chief Engineer uses his knowledge to continue his own business.

Elbett kits are not cheap but they do what it says on the tin.

In summary. If you can fit the kit yourself, do your own servicing, have a reliable source of oil and don't mind the hassle, then svo/wvo is extremely viable.

I recently worked out that running my TDI90 at 65mpg on WVO at 40ppl is cheaper than electric!

Elsbett 1 tank A2 kits are currently 1050 Euros plus tax plus postage plus fitting so a little over £1000 plus fitting.

I have considered offering a fitting service but thought that it wouldn't be very popular or profitable. The final bill would likely be around £2k and not many people want to spent that on a 15+ year old car. Pay back is about 30,000 miles.

I'm happy to answer any questions about running WVO or Elsbett kits.

Trevor
 
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