White Instrument Cluster Dial Group Purchase

2work

A2OC Donor
Morning all,

I’d like to take the idea of a group but of white dials to the next level, as I’m quite interested in making Project OEMs instruments look a little younger.

There has been plenty of conversations on here over time regards this upgrade and a few have already done it, but the costs involved just don’t seem practical to me. Its normally around £100 - £200 for a white dial kit depending on where the kit or sourced from. If we can generate enough interest and get an order together for let’s say 15 - 20 then the price drops dramatically.

I personally don’t know what I’d go for, black dials with white text or white dials with black text. Which would look best with a colour DIS upgrade sat in the middle of them (probable upgrade after lockdown).

This thread started by @DJ 190 got me really interested in this conversion. This is what the later Audi font looks like on a black background:
DDE1FFCA-A1F2-4B8B-863D-6ABACA17C529.png


Have a look through this thread which @Birchall started a few years ago. You will see how black text on a white background looks. You’ll notice that it was a one off and not from a group purchase, Im hoping we can get to low as what was mentioned by the team at Lockwoods at around £50. Here is what the white dials look like:
68C74052-670D-4A5E-A902-CC07543E305D.png

And look even better once fitted:
7E9C9D88-25E5-42FC-8C32-E4A252E9F77D.jpeg


Some of you may remember that I revived a thread 3 years ago, which has resulted in nearly 300 A2s sporting the A2OC Number Plate Surrounds. This venture will probably not be as successful but I’m willing to give it a try.

If I could get definite interest in 15-20 dial kits (presumably around £50 but will investigate) I would do the work with the company to get what we all agree on (colour, font etcetera).

The dial kits are specific to engine type (I know 1.4i, 1.6FSI and 1.4TDI have different rev ranges) and I am really doing this for Project OEM (1.4 TDI 75 AMF). They will come with all the warning icons for those of us with the full DIS. That said, if there wasn’t enough interest in getting dials for the TDI but plenty of Petrol members were interested I would of course continue the venture with no outcome for my TDI.

This is just the start of hopefully something most of us can benefit from, I have not made any calls to companies yet and will give you all an update after the weekend once I have done so.

If anyone is concerned about the work involved to remove their current dials to fit a new set, I can tell you that it is quite simple and no special tools are involved. If this project gets off the ground I will make a video clip on how to remove the instrument cluster to replace the dials. That said a ‘How To’ already exists for this task which @Birchall put together a few years ago.

If you’re interested please respond with what you’re after, to include quantity required, preferred colour and which engine type, for example:

2Work - 1x - black text/white background - TDI 75

I’ll compose a simple spreadsheet to collate all the interest and ensure it is visible for everyone.

Fingers crossed this is an absolute hit like the number plate surrounds were/still are.

Kind regards,

Tom
 

2work

A2OC Donor
Morning again,

There is absolutely no obligation when showing your interest. I just want to see how I am to proceed getting these dials in my A2.

I’d probably not mind paying the one off price but would obviously prefer to get a hefty discount with a group order.

No money will swap hands until I have got all the costs involved including shipping etcetera. This will all be publicly visible, this project will not have any financial gain to myself and I too will be paying for my dials like the rest of you, just like I did with the number plate surrounds.

This venture is just to get the best possible priced white dials in my A2 along with helping other members along the way at the same time.

Kind regards,

Tom
 
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2work

A2OC Donor
This is a great offer of help and guidance by you.
I doff my cap.
Thank you John,

This is something that I have wanted since I see the black dials that @Mustang-owner had. The conversion just never got to the top of the list whilst I was in the Ebony Black A2. I think Project OEM deserves something a little different, which it WILL get, but it would be nice to get the mentioned discount from a group order.

Fingers crossed it takes off.

Kind regards,

Tom
 

2work

A2OC Donor
I'm interested, but unfortunately I have a 1.4 and not a TDI.
Having the brilliant 1.4i shouldn’t be a problem. Let’s just hope there are more BBY/AUA members who are interested. As I stated above, if there is not enough interest in the TDI conversion but enough 1.4i or FSI interest I will proceed with the venture at the cost of not getting new dials for my TDI. I’ll probably end up paying the full price whilst petrol owners get the discount.

Let’s see how it goes.

Kind regards,

Tom
 

2work

A2OC Donor
No idea of the quality and apologies if this company has already been checked out but the dials seem amazing value and they may already have A2 templates on file - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Audi-A3-...095847?hash=item1a959abd27:g:orwAAOSwkeFejuZq

As a comparison, in the past I'd seen A2 custom dials for sale in the £30 - £50 price range

Cheers Spike
Thank you Spike,

I have come across this ebay seller and have asked if they can make something up for the A2. I didn’t get reply to my message which was originally sent in 2018 I think.

Their kits for the other Audi models are very cheaply priced which is steering me away, Id be happy to hear anyone’s thoughts on this sellers items if you’ve got them in another Audi as this could well be the best option for the price.

I really wanted to have a set made up by either Lockwoods or K-Tec as you have a vote in what is actually produced. Like the A2OC Number Plate Surrounds I hade produced, Id also like the Club Emblem to appear somewhere on the dials.

Would it be cheaper getting a budget dial set from an auction site along with getting a smaller club stickers and just placing said sticker on said cheap dials. If this is something that members would prefer I could also look into that.

Thanks again for pointing out another option Spike.

Kind regards,

Tom
 

2work

A2OC Donor
@Special edition, @Proghound

I could do with some administrator assistance here please. To try to move forward with getting the Club Emblem on a set of custom dials I will of course need Administrator approval. Additionally I’d also need the club emblem JPEG/Vector file as I no longer have these from the number plate surround designs, old MacBook died and couldn’t get a backup of the stored data.

For the number plate surrounds I got the Vector files from @Vonnie / @a2sumo but I understand both Yvonne and Mike are not as active on here as they used to be.

Kind regards,

Tom
 

Special edition

Admin Team
Thankyou once again for your efforts with this Tom... very much appreciated. Allowing the A2OC logo to be placed on these dials would have to be on the proviso of a team discussion and decision. As you can imagine first and foremost in our concerns would be the quality of the dials and whether they are fit for purpose to sell to members. I will raise it with admin members for you....lets see how much interest there is first though.

Cheers
Dave. 🙂
 
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2work

A2OC Donor
Thankyou once again for your efforts with this Tom... very much appreciated. Allowing the A2OC logo to be placed on these dials would have to be on the proviso of a team discussion and decision. As you can imagine first and foremost in our concerns would be the quality of the dials and whether they are fit for purpose to sell to members. I will raise it with admin members.

Cheers
Dave. 🙂
Thank you Dave,

I understand that there are a few members who have fitted these to their A2s but know for sure that the following members have:

@Birchall, @DJ 190 & @Mustang-owner have the K- Tec dials. Could one or all of you please comment on their fitment (not how to but are they in keeping with OEM sizes), quality and how they have performed over time. Steve I know you have sold your stunning Holy Grail so from best memory please.

I will be able to get a sample picture of the design from K-Tec if I could get the Club Emblem Vector file.

The design along with some member feedback on the K-Tec dials would hopefully assist the Admin Team to allow me to continue with this little venture.

If the discussion ends in a nail in the coffin for this project could you also ask if I could be given clearance to have a one off dial kit made for just my A2 alone, with the emblem displayed.

Hopefully the Team sees my vision as it did with the Club Number Plate Surrounds. I won’t accept/allow a poor quality product and will do more research if the testimonials come back from the above mentioned members that the dial kits aren’t actually that good.

There are more companies who do this and can be approached if needed.

Kind regards,

Tom
 

timmus

A2OC Donor
Well done, Tom, for organising another group purchase. I hope there's enough interest to make it viable. I shan't be adding my name to the order because I'm happy with the original black scales, but I thought I'd throw some potentially useful information into the mix...

They will come with all the warning icons for those of us with the full DIS
There is no difference between the scales used in a DIS cluster and those used in a standard, non-DIS cluster.

The dial kits are specific to engine type (I know 1.4i, 1.6FSI and 1.4TDI have different rev ranges)
The right-hand-side scales (showing fuel level, engine temp and speed) are the same across all UK A2s, irrespective of engine type. Central European and Irish scales are obviously different due to imperial vs. metric measurements.

The left-hand-side scales (showing rpm) vary considerably. Engine type clearly affects the rev range, though the warning symbols in the centre also vary. There are also variations within TDI scales; early clusters use different symbols to later clusters. I can't remember all the differences, but I can check my stocks of scales later today.

If anyone is concerned about the work involved to remove their current dials to fit a new set, I can tell you that it is quite simple and no special tools are involved.
On this point, I must disagree. In order to change the scales, you have to take the analogue pointers (the 'needles') off. These aren't 'keyed' in any way at all, meaning that reseating the needles with any confidence/accuracy isn't straightforward. The stepper motors that drive the needles are also very easily nudged out of their home position, and will only find their home position again once the cluster is powered up. In short, the moment that the needles are removed, their calibration must be considered lost.
I work on A2 instrument clusters on a regular basis, and have to remove the needles and the scales in order to do all manner of repairs and upgrades to the motherboard beneath. Once the work is complete, I plug the cluster into my workbench test rig, which also allows me to accurately recalibrate the needles. I would never consider installing an instrument cluster in a fellow club members' car without having gone through this recalibration process. A tiny angular error could mean the difference between 30mph and 33mph ...a speeding fine vs. no speeding fine.
For those who have VCDS, the recalibration process can be done with a half-built cluster back in the car, but it's awkward.
When replacing the scales and the needles, there are a number of other potential pitfalls. A needle that's reseated even a fraction of a millimetre too deep on the stepper motor's shaft will present too much rotational resistance, which results either in needle position lag or in the needle 'flickering' about its correct position. The same issue arises if the scales aren't seated properly at the centre, where the stepper motor shaft pokes through the scales. This was a common problem with the K-Tec scales, because the cut-out for the stepper motor shaft was not cut with enough attention to detail, causing it to bow upwards in the middle or to form a radial crease.
When DJ190 fitted his white dials, the needle calibration was lost, as is inevitable. Using prior knowledge of revs vs. speed, David tried to calibrate the dials by driving at different speeds in different gears. Unfortunately, neither revs nor speed were known to be correct, meaning there was no fixed reference. The result was that neither needle found its way back to its proper position. In the end, I recalibrated it using my bench rig ...a process I've done for many members who've done scale changes without the necessary equipment. Having disassembled and reassembled literally hundreds of A2 clusters, I'd strongly suggest that it is a misapprehension to believe that simply marking the positions of the needles prior to removal will result in accurate reseating. To do the job properly, special tools are most definitely involved.

Of course, for anyone who wishes to change their scales, I can offer a fitting and/or recalibration service.

Cheers,

Tom
 
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2work

A2OC Donor
On this point, I must disagree. In order to change the scales, you have to take the analogue pointers (the 'needles') off. These aren't 'keyed' in any way at all, meaning that reseating the needles with any confidence/accuracy isn't straightforward.

Cheers,

Tom
Tom,

Thank you for this top information.

I guess that this is the confirmation that the Admin Team will need to decide against continuing this venture with the Club Emblem displayed. A little disappointed as I liked the idea of club branded dials.

Apologies to anyone who was excited by this group buy idea, but in light of Toms information that it isn’t a straight forward swap over, it seems it is a little more involved in fitting the dials and couldn’t ask members to do this in case something is damaged.

This is something that Tom can certainly do but would mean you have to send your instrument cluster to him (A2 off the road until you cluster is returned) to fit the dials and conduct the calibration procedure. This will of course push the final costs up before you can use your new dials.

From the top of my head the costs would increase to:

£50 dials delivered to me in Coalville.
£6.99 postage from Coalville to members addresses, well packaged and next day delivery
£6.99 next day delivery to @timmus
£6.99 for @timmus to return your calibrated instrument cluster with the dials fitted
£??? Toms cost to fit the dials and conduct the calibration.

Not wanting to add to @timmus workload (unless you’re up for the challenge Tom) and asking members to remove their instrument clusters I don’t see this going any further.

Happy to read members thoughts on this as I could still go ahead with this but think it may not end up with the Club Emblem on the dials. Again a bit disappointed as I liked the idea of branded clocks! I await the decision from the Admin Team.

Perhaps I go at this as solely for myself as I know K-Tec will be able to supply quite quickly.

Thoughts everyone!

Kind regards,

Tom
 

timmus

A2OC Donor
Hi folks,

The intention of my post above was to urge caution rather than to pour cold water on the whole idea. I don't believe that a group order is now out of the question; it's just a case of making sure that the cluster is correctly reassembled and recalibrated prior to reinstallation in the car. This simply requires prospective buyers to be aware that fitting will need to be carried out by someone with the appropriate equipment and experience. To my mind, this is no different to the ProAlloy intercooler group order; some people will fit it themselves, whereas others will take it to an experienced garage to do the installation.

@2work is correct that, if the installation of the replacement scales is to be done by post, prospective buyers would need to be able to remove and refit the instrument cluster, and accept that their A2 would be immobilised whilst the cluster was on holiday at Timmus Towers. However, visiting me in person would remove this problem, as would a visit from me whilst I was 'on tour'.

Should the group order still proceed, I think it's important to unequivocally declare that anyone who attempts the installation bears full responsibility for any issues that arise as a result. Neither @2work nor @A2OC could be considered liable for any speeding fines or resultant cluster faults. The explicit approval of the use of the A2OC logo could, potentially, muddy this matter, but I risk speaking out of turn here.

If someone was to buy a second-hand A2 with its needles out of calibration, and thus ran out of fuel, needlessly replaced the thermostat/temp sensor, got a speeding fine, etc, I would empathise with their irritation. The 'buyer beware' principle would protect any private seller, but traders could find themselves in a really difficult position, with no understanding of the source of the problem or how to fix it. However, we can't police what people do to their cars.

Edit: The exact scenario that I've described here has happened. See here... https://www.a2oc.net/community/inde...-dial-group-purchase.43469/page-3#post-401405

Cheers,

Tom
 
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2work

A2OC Donor
Hi folks,

The intention of my post above was to urge caution rather than to pour cold water on the whole idea. I don't believe that a group order is now out of the question; it's just a case of making sure that the cluster is correctly reassembled and recalibrated prior to reinstallation in the car.

Cheers,

Tom

Thank you Tom again,

Everyone, it looks like this is still a viable option with Tom offering his services to correctly fit the dials and calibrate the needles.

I’m sure it won’t be too long before Tom will supply is with a guide on the cost of doing such work and taking a trip to the post office/local Hermes shop.

I was hoping this would have been a little easier to get the dials fitted but it’s fantastic that there is an simple way of doing this without causing faults and getting speeding fines etcetera.

I’ll continue this venture along with waiting for the decision from the Admin Team, to see if we can have the A2OC logo on the dials like we did for the number plate surrounds.

A massive thank you to @timmus for offering his services.

Please do register interest for the group buy, by replying in this thread. No need for PMs yet.

Kind regards,

Tom
 

DJ 190

A2OC Donor
I'm not sure what I eventually ended up paying for my white dials ...... it was so long ago! However, it was probably in excess of £100? A group purchase never materialised. There's only one interesting finding that I have to add, following my fitting of the white dials. I found that light transmission down through the pointers (at night) was too much and was reflecting off the dials. I countered this by painting, in red coloured paint, just the back surface of all of the pointers. I even experimented (how appropriate a word is that when related to myself :) ) with making not just the dials but the complete surrounding frame, white! I didn't like it and removed the white surround.

David
 

2work

A2OC Donor
I'm not sure what I eventually ended up paying for my white dials ...... it was so long ago! However, it was probably in excess of £100? A group purchase never materialised. There's only one interesting finding that I have to add, following my fitting of the white dials. I found that light transmission down through the pointers (at night) was too much and was reflecting off the dials. I countered this by painting, in red coloured paint, just the back surface of all of the pointers. I even experimented (how appropriate a word is that when related to myself :) ) with making not just the dials but the complete surrounding frame, white! I didn't like it and removed the white surround.

David
Afternoon David and thank you for your comments,

I should have mentioned this in an earlier thread regards a requirement to coat the rear of the needles/pointers in paint. I read that @Birchall had to do the same. Maybe this is an additional task/costing for @timmus to consider before he reveals the price to swap over the dials and perform the calibration.

I agree that a white coloured facia/binnacle would be too much a change. I like the idea of the subtle change of just the dials themselves.

Apart from the light bleed which can be solved whilst the needles are off, is there anything else that members would need to understand before they show interest in the potential group purchase.

Thank you again as I guess I’ve stole this idea from you, let’s hope it can get somewhere this time around and possibly having the club logo appear on the right hand side above the odometer.

Kind regards,

Tom
 

2work

A2OC Donor
Is grey OEM an option?

Speed in miles or km\h?
Apologies as I missed this post earlier.

This group purchase would be to get white dials unless the majority of the interested members wanted to keep it looking more OEM and opting for black.

The design of the dials will display larger MPH along with smaller KPH as found in most UK cars.

Hope this helps.

Kind regards,

Tom
 

Olerype

Member
Apologies as I missed this post earlier.

This group purchase would be to get white dials unless the majority of the interested members wanted to keep it looking more OEM and opting for black.

The design of the dials will display larger MPH along with smaller KPH as found in most UK cars.

Hope this helps.

Kind regards,

Tom
I was thinking of grey that was OEM from Audi:
56D05C77-090B-4CC7-8CD0-4634BD09B6DD.png
 
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