1.4 AUA Possible HGF or Bad workmanship/Bad Luck?

carbore

Member
Hello,

Im in a bit of a quandary my my 1.4 Petrol AUA.

In November the car stared losing a bit of coolant, not a lot but then again I only do really short 2 mile round trips in it. Car would warn me and it was just below MIN when checked.
I didn't ignore this and looked for the cause and it was leaking from the gasket on the rear coolant pipe (aka death pipe on a 1.6). Now this was a bit of a surprise as that was replaced by me two years ago when I did a host of other work when I first got the car. Anyway I replaced it did a quick test and all was good.

A week or so later, doing a 5 mile 10 min run to drop kid at dance club, 8 mins in I had a coolant low BEEP, looked down and it was also a bit hot. I couldn't stop immediately as I was in singe track lane so wacked the heating up full and drove 500yds to the dance place and shutdown. I opened the bonnet expecting to just see the expansion tank low, but it was empty tray soaking and low and behold the bottom radiator hose was "off". My assumption was I had not correctly seated it and when the car got warm it blew it off. I recovered the car back to my house on a trailer, got a new spring clip and refitted.

A few days later, id done a short drive or two and checked levels, but this day I set off from home (car cold) and only a few hundred yards up the lane and BEEP. Turn back, opened up and this time a hose had come off the thermostat housing. Again I thought maybe this was me, re-seated and carried on. (if you have ever done this job, you know its a PITA)

Now a month later, I have done yet more short trips but the car hardly has time to warm up. Today its now leaking coolant AGAIN and it looks like its the rear pipe lower seal (I'm yet to get it on ramps, but its not the thermostat hosing side its dripping from)

To me this is getting silly, im not usually error prone in my car work, I have done cambelts on my Elise, Clutch on my tractor, loads of oil changes, Disks and pads on lots of cars and I don't screw things up.


Im now concerned I have HGF (long term or maybe caused by the initial hose failure) and the cooling system is becoming over pressurised by the engine, the leaks are due to the pressure finding the weakest link and blowing it out. I also think I see "mayonnaise" on the oil cap, and also when I was doing the first leak behind the engine I also replaced the oil separator which was casing a vacuum leak. The separator was a bit mayonnaise but I put that down to age an it doing its job.

What do I do next?

Replace the engine pipe seal? (are there bad ones to avoid, should I use any additional sealant)
How to check for HGF, drain inspect the oil, take it to my local garage for some kind of test?
The coolant reservoir doesn't look oily by the way.

Fortunately I have another car, so not desperate and can plan an approach, however I do love my little A2 and use it for all my short trips.

Thoguhts?

PS car has about 128k miles. Patchy service history before I owned it. Looked after well by me for last 2 years.
 

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A combustion leak tester kit will check if exhaust gases are mixing in with the coolant.
Lots to choose from but not sure what would be suitable for an A2.

In my experience that small amount of oil and water emulsion is common place for an A2 petrol that does short journeys. Nothing to be concerned about.
 
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Hate to say this but suspect your water pump drive may have sheared ? The overpressure of the system is the main issue here. Not exactly sure where to start apart from the thermostat first. But loss of fluid , coolant , id tend to head for the water pump itself. The overpressure , tempted to check radiator first , see if it’s clogged causing overpressure, back flush disconnect all pipes see what comes out first. . Bypass radiator completely, slave fit a bit of hose pipe , and reconnect pipe see if still over pressure. . May be one way forward but take advice from all on here , who I’m sure have had the same problem.,at some time.
 
A combustion leak tester kit will check if exhaust gases are mixing in with the coolant.
Lots to choose from but not sure what would be suitable for an A2.

In my experience that small amount of oil and water emulsion is common place for an A2 petrol that does short journeys. Nothing to be concerned about.

Seconded on both suggestions. A combustion leak test kit is pretty cheap and easy to use normally, only the A2 radiator doesn't have a radiator cap, right? I'm not sure if they still work if plugged into the expansion tank. Even if a kit with a plug that size doesn't exist, a plug can be found elsewhere and you can then drill a hole in it.
The emulsion looks like a very minor amount as well, and normal given these repeated short journeys in cold, wet weather.
 
Yeah they still work just connect to header tank and follow instructions, however it sounds like there's excessive pressure in the system, how hard are the coolant hoses getting with the cap on?

The best fix for the 1.4 petrols seems to be to fit a later VAG engine, think A2steve has done it successfully!
 
Thanks for the ideas. I have a leak tester on order https://www.amazon.co.uk/RELD-Cylinder-Combusion-Universal-Motorcycles/dp/B07RS3N98V/ref=sr_1_1

Also remembered I have an engine compression tester so I do some tests with that too, see if I have a different value over a cylinder etc.

Thermostat and housing is new and fitted during the repair (toprpan) as the old one had an old repair so I wanted it 100% (obviously stat could still be bad). That said other than loss car warms up properly and at bang on 90 in the middle.

Water pump was new 2 years ago with the gates cambelt kit I fitted when I first for the car, but @BoeingPenny any ideas how to test for that (other than removal of the water pump/cambelt) IIRC I see coolant returned to the expansion tank so I think its circulating.

Im not even sure its over pressure, its could still be a few badly fitted parts and a failed seal. I had a bad seal before due to flashing, but do to that I check this one 100%. Maybe the internal surface is corroded or scaled (Time for my USB endoscope I guess!, I love a bit of kit ;-) )

Ill update as I progress.
 
The overpressure I assume is still there after checking all usual suspects , if the head gasket proves to be good , I still suspect the radiator. As regards the water pump as long as the rotary vane type , not the welded , spot welded one I think had issues . Gates belt the best so no issue there, I only ask if it was started without any anti freeze in water system. Which if it was can shear the drive as pump water is frozen if you get my drift. Have known it happen.
 
I think you can put a dye in water system to find leaks think it’s blue in colour , but no idea where to get it these days. It would prove if water pump is functioning. Again some one on here will know. !
 
Update on this, good news is it looks like my fault.

Took it to bits today and the lower gasket was mangled. It did feel a bit stubborn going in but there you go, ill try some better next time.. Also the clip on the top is not seating well, Im not blaming myself for this one, it looks like the thermostat housing has a bit of flashing in the slot so its not clicking in as well as it could be.

I still might run a HGF test as I have the kit now, I did a compression test though and that was all fine.
 
Further update, after doing a few careful "laps of the village" it seems the Rad isn't getting warm even though the temp has been on 90 for 10 mins. and the hoses on one side are very hard. Im now very suspect that that the stat that came in the housing I replaced is sticky/stuck as that was changed as part of the recent work. Ill swap in the known good one and see how that goes.
 
Did you allow the system to bleed all the air out when you refilled the coolant? Leaving the cap off and running till hot can clear air locks also use any bleed screws.

Audi vacuum out the whole coolant system and hold it under vacuum to check for leaks, then that vacuum is used to suck in and completely fill the system with coolant ensuring no air in the system.
 
Hi, Yes, I’m not going to say air locks may not have been part of the overall sequence of issues, but after this rebuild I ran it for a significant time with the top off and heater running etc and to temp and the rad is still cold. Also on an earlier test the rad did warm eventually but it’s definitely feeling like the stat is iffy. I’ll double check before I progress.
 
An additional question/comment.

I think the hose to the top of the rad is hot/pressurised but the lower hose which I think goes to the thermostat body in the housing is cold. Is this hinting that the stat is the issue or the Rad?
 
Could be either or both! Have you checked you are actually getting coolant flow and the water pump has not failed?

Is the thermostat "Murphy proof" to prevent it being fitted reverse flow?
 
The top radiator hose is the radiator inlet hose and as such should be hotter than the lower return hose.

Thermostat and rear coolant pipe - exploded view
a2-3459.png

1 -Connection
2 -Bolt
q Thread-forming
q 9 Nm
3 -O-rings
q Renew
4 -Thermostat
q Removing and installing → Chapter
5 -To heat exchanger for heater
6 -From coolant expansion tank
7 -Thermostat housing
q Removing and installing → Chapter
8 -From heat exchanger for heater
9 -Coolant pipe (rear)
q Removing and installing → Chapter
10 -Seal
q Renew
11 -Cylinder block
12 -Retaining clip
q Check for firm attachment
13 -Bolt
q 10 Nm
14 -Sealing plug
15 -Coolant temperature sender -G62-
q Removing and installing → Chapter
16 -Retaining clips
q Check for firm attachment
17 -Bolt
q Thread-forming
q 6 Nm
18 -Bracket
19 -To top of radiator
20 -From bottom of radiator
 
Update on this one;

Checked the Rad by running a hose through it and the water came out as fast as it was going in so I think the Rad is ok.

The thermostat in the new housing though looks "wrong" its nothing like the "thin" ones in the A2 1.4 originally.

A2-DodgyThermostat.jpg


I replaced it with the original stat and original stat elbow. Refilled and vented, got up to 90deg and then did a lap of the village and all is Ok. Ill build up courage to do a longer run over the weekend.

Original stat/elbow

A2-OriginalThermostat.jpg
 
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