Cold Starting Issue

F

FourtyRoy

A2OC Donor
Having an issue with the TDi starting on Cold Mornings. Glowplugs you may say! They were replaced earlier in the year with a service (albeit an independant Audi garage that didn't even realise they messed up my bonnet catches so the flap didn't sit closed properly!!)

The starter flies and the Engine briefly catches so you release the key and thats it. Worst case was 6 attempts.

Gut reaction is still with glowplugs as once its run doesn't miss a beat for my 45mile commuting journey and throughout the rest of the day.

Any Observations?

Roy
 
Hi Roy
A few members have had problems with the fuel system loosing its prime when the car is idle for long periods. Air leaks on the fuel filter seem to be the most common cause and can often happen if the filter has recently been replaced. Non genuine filters have also caused problems.

Cheers Spike
 
Thanks Spike

Hadn't even considered this route so its one to look at (is there a thread on any pitfalls with this as I'm sure if I need to go down this road I can do it myself).

Regards

Roy
 
This has recently happened to me and i changed the glow plugs, for the first day problem disappeared, next day back again, now while my A2 was quite lively, battery good, turns over, but it would not burst into life.
So i came back on the forum for advice and while i was on here i picked up on a thread about the starter on the A2 can be lazy, so followed the instructions on this site to take out the starter, i stripped it down greased it up and put it back. weeks on it appears fine. but i have to be honest i did not think it was the starter. good luck
 
FourtyRoy said:
Thanks Spike

Hadn't even considered this route so its one to look at (is there a thread on any pitfalls with this as I'm sure if I need to go down this road I can do it myself).

Regards

Roy
Click to expand...

Hi Roy
The loss of fuel system prime is most likely to happen if you have just had the fuel filter changed. The only other clue would be if you have a fuel leak at the back end of the car.

Cheers Spike
 
I've had the same problem
took it to a garage and they said no 2 glowplug so i fitted a new one and it was alright until yesterday lunch at school when i wanted to drop something off It wouldn't start and i ended up over cranking so that the engine light came on. I didn't have time to faff so i went back at 3.45 and guess what it started first time so i don't know what it is i did have it audi serviced at easter so i guess they used proper stuff and did it properly...
Fuel loss of prime is my guess
Paul
 
Hi, I am having the same problem with my 90bhp tdi also, had fuel filter changed, air filter and oil change today and problem still exists, mine has got increasingly worse in that it used to be difficult to start after stopping this first happened last summer when we tried to restart the car after an hour, it cranked over for ages before firing the same warning lights as yours came on, this happened every now an then and it started immediately you sprayed easy start into the air inlet, the problem got progressively worse until it started cutting out whilst driving, I searched the forums, concluded it may be the fuel filter, had it changed today and the problem continues, I am very concerned that Audi themselves may not be able to find the fault as many others have tried with similar problems and spent a fortune in the dealers to no avail. I am thinking changing my glow plugs next week but think it may be a waste of time since 75% of the time the problem now rears its ugly head when the car is running.
Any more ideas will be much appreciated ?
 
my symptoms exactly

as you know i replace just the one glow plug but after repeated poor starting and reading about the glow plug test using a battery charegr i deicied to test the others. Both of the olde ones left in refused to light up and so i though it must be me i cant be doing it right so i got a new one and tried that. Wow lit up like a christmas tree. I ony had one spare good one at that point and so fitted that, thinking two better than one. Lo and behold i pulled over at a shop one night came back to car and refused to start even thou engine was still warmish in fact i had to wait for engine temp to drop before it started. I couldnt find the fuel filter to check but the rest of the fuel lines look ok later so now i have no idea. Problem is really that my wife needs to use it and the sat nav so she can get around and is wanting me to get rid...
Im now thinkgin of a visit to the dealers rather han the little prestige car guy
What do you think?
Paul

Any comments appreciated
 
Hi Paul
The fuel filter is hidden under a dimpled alloy panel located in front of the passenger side rear wheel.
I just found out there is a non return valve in the fuel supply line. Failure would result in loss of fuel system prime so this could be worth checking if the starting problem occurs when the car has not been used for a while.

Cheers Spike
 
poor starting tdi90

Well chaps i have not fixed this and was stuck at work on friday pm and had to get recovered to home, only 6 miles away. :mad:
Ive got vagcom now and when i was trying unsuccessfully to code my MFSW to work the phone i noted any faults
they were:
2/1/09
p0671-35-00 Q10 electrical fault cylinder 1 glow plug current
00466 control module for steering column electroncs (J527) 004 no signal/ communication intermittent ( which explains why i cant code my MFSW to do the phone, I think)

And then this morning i went out to the car and it started first click, so i drove it straight down to Audi wakefeld and asked them to have a look at the drivers door as it was misaligned and they repaired the hinges a year ago. The technician said he'd have a quick adjust and i was also cheeky enough to ask him if he could give me a bit of advice on the intermittent starting problem. After 10 minutes he said
the engine speed sensor was coming up and that he would probably change this but that it would deserve a slightly more in depth look to be sure. he cleared it and booked my car in to have drivers door realigned

2 things:

A) lots of us have had their door hinges re done has any one had any further problems? mine looks like accident damage now on the drivers side and it was really noticeable as it was being hauled onto the truck last night, as the shadows emphasised the discrepancies.
B) Secondly what do people think of the engine speed sensor argument pertaining to a not unknown difficulty in starting ?
Regards to everyone
Paul
 
Paul, what do you mean in saying you want the MFSW to work with the phone? It should alreay work via the mode button, that flips between radio and telephone, then the thumbwheel next to it should scroll through the contacts.

If this isn't the case (you'll recall your phone module was not working when I did the install), then it is the phone module that needs coding.

The speech button on the other side of the wheel will only work with a rewire of the microphone - at the moment, the mic is wired directly to the BT module and for SRS to work (that's speech recognition system), you need to flash the firmware on the RNS-E (again as we discussed) and then the mic needs to be re-wired so that it goes to the RNS-E first, then onto the BT module.

As to the speed sensor, that may well solve the cold starting issue, aslong with a set of replacement glow plugs - if one is gone, the others will be on their way out.

Cheers,

Mike
 
yes skipton youre right and i certainly dont mean to insinuate that any of your work on the mfsw is incomplete. I am very satisfied and pleased with the helpyouve given and as you can see ive recently found how to do list of stuff on the car
i didnt want pm you as i dont want give you the impression of pestering you and i did think a little bit of work from my end would reap some benefits.

The mode button does not work and ive had a go at recoding to no effect so although i was going to pm you i decided to have a play around for a while but i have to admmit im stumped abit now
the original coding in telephone module adress 77, was 0011722 without the mode button working or any contact nos coming up iin the dis display
i recoded it to 0011422 which didnt change anything so i put it back to original and then later recoded it to 0011522 which didnt change anything either so i put it back again
it the rns-e was reflashed to sw0650 by craig barnes and he said that this would suffice to enable wheel scrolling of contacts on dis and flicking between radio and tp using mode
sorry to bump the cold starting issue everyone
Paul
 
I'll take a look at my coding and see what I can do.

The FW update will not allow SDS though - you need to install a hacked version if you want to be able to talk to the car!

Cheers,

Mike
 
cold starting

cheers skipton, back to cold starting

there is ann article on cold starting via the tdi club (mentioned in a post by spike regarding glow plugs and cold starting) in here it says you can check the glow plug harness and there shouldl be 12v at the glow plugs on ignition at on stage for first 20secs while they get current to make them glow...
ive checked mine and rechecked my connections and only get 2.95, 3.15 and 3.10v surely wrong ?? car is currently cleared of faults and starts ok
even if i add each voltage up i only get 9.2v to the glow plugs at this point , but then ive only got three cylinders which would be 9v equivalent if you have to sum the inidividual glow plug voltages

does anyone know if this sounds ok or not?
and does anyone know where the ngine speed sensor is as i mentioned it above and approx how much it costs?
id like to get a bit of peace of mind back regarding the starting issues as im sure others would also
Paul
 
Hi Paul

As you may already know, the glow plug 'time on' is dependent on temperature (below 6C) and varies between zero and around 20 sec (as indicated by the glow plug light). I would expect to see around 12v at each plug during the timed period but checking it is tricky as you may only have a second or two after ignition on - particularly if the engine or the ambient air is warm

Cheers Spike
 
Without wanting to hijack this thread further, here is a link to the SDS firmware hack and how to rewire the BT mic:

http://audiforum.us/maps-firmware/9656-sds-speech-dialogue-system-sw-0660-experiences-a4.html

Also, my BT module coding is 0011802 and the RNS-E coding is 0509718, but don't forget I've got tv tuners and pretty much every other option available too.

As to the steering electronics control module, that has never been coded from the factory, as it is only diagnosable via CAN and the A2 uses K-line.

Cheers,

Mike
 
spike said:
Hi Paul
The fuel filter is hidden under a dimpled alloy panel located in front of the passenger side rear wheel.
I just found out there is a non return valve in the fuel supply line. Failure would result in loss of fuel system prime so this could be worth checking if the starting problem occurs when the car has not been used for a while.

Cheers Spike
Click to expand...

Hi Spike
Where in the fuel line is the non return valve located?
thanks
 
Last edited:
still no solution to starting issue 04 TDI 90 56k miles

As noted above, the engine speed sensor came up as 'no signal' so i replaced it yesterday and it wasnt difficult to do! It is the sensor with the wire disappearing under the cam belt top cover.
I thought i'd cracked it actually as the car seemed to be very keen to start and fired up in what seemed like a millisecond this carried on for the rest of the day with me even beginning to brag to the Mrs that I'd sorted it and that it would run forever, or until i saw and Alfa Romeo Mito in the flesh (whichever comes first).
After I'd washed it today and left it standing for exactly that middle period of time between warm and flat cold, that other sufferers will know only too well, the little flipper refused to start and sounded like it had exactly the same problem as it's had since the summer. Obviously I've wasted £69 on a replacement engine speed sensor, and yes, I read Sarge's comments about fools merely replacing sensors...!
This is what I'll do now:

1. check the 612 fuel relay under the passneger footwell for poor contacts as suggested by Brett Kivi in other threads
2. have a look at that fuel filter fitted only last year by Audi Wakefield and apparently working for four months without a problem.
3. Am tempted to change the water temp sensor ?? what do you think
4. I do think i am not getting enough juice to my glow plugs can anyone suggest how to test this infallibly . I've done the multi meter test with black to a suitable earth and red up the rubber glow plug shroud while ignition is turned on and only get circa 3V


ANY COMMENTS DULY APPRECIATED
Paul
 
bags said:
Hi Spike
Where in the fuel line is the non return valve located?
thanks
Click to expand...

I have a very old schematic of the fuel pipework which shows a non return valve in the supply line between the filter and fuel pump on the back of the cyl head.
It must be a red herring as it's not referenced on the workshop discs nor shown in the parts lists. Apologies for the duff info.

Cheers Spike
 
spike said:
I have a very old schematic of the fuel pipework which shows a non return valve in the supply line between the filter and fuel pump on the back of the cyl head.
It must be a red herring as it's not referenced on the workshop discs nor shown in the parts lists. Apologies for the duff info.

Cheers Spike
Click to expand...

Hmm, i was hoping that might be my problem.
I was told by a diesel specialist that the fuel pump was not working... so i had it replaced and it still takes a 6/10 seconds on starting from cold when parked on the flat.
Iv now resorted to parking over night nose down on the hill, then it starts first time from cold!!
 
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