Diesel Crackdown in the UK

manhattan$

Past Member
From Sky News. Not sure if it will affect A2 tdi owners?



Diesel Faces Crackdown As UK Ordered To Act

The Government has been ordered to act immediately to comply with European air pollution limits.

The decision by the Supreme Court relates to nitrogen dioxide, largely produced by diesel engines, and it could lead to tight controls on diesel vehicles in Britain's largest cities.

The case was brought against the Environment Secretary by campaign group ClientEarth who argued that cities including London, Birmingham and Leeds would not meet EU pollution limits until 2030 - 20 years after the 2010 deadline.

The panel of five judges unanimously ruled the Government must submit a new air quality plan to the European Commission by the end of the year.

ClientEarth had argued that only enforcement action would remedy "the ongoing breach by the UK of EU law on nitrogen dioxide limits".

The group claimed air pollution in the UK causes 29,000 early deaths a year; more than obesity and alcohol combined.

Representing ClientEarth, Ben Jaffey told the court: "The UK had more than 10 years notice of the implementation of these limits. The UK has now been continuously in breach of those limits since January 2010.

"A maximum of five years time extension was available, expiring by 1 January, 2015 at the latest. This period has also now expired, but the UK never applied for an extension in many areas. The UK therefore remains in breach."

But a spokeswoman for the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs said: "Work is already under way on revised plans - since February 2014 - to meet EU targets on NO2 (nitrogen dioxide) as soon as possible.

"It has always been the Government's position to submit these plans before the end of this year. Meeting NO2 limits is a common challenge across Europe with 17 member states exceeding limits."

Defra said average roadside concentrations of NO2 had fallen 15% since 2010, while both NO2 emissions and background concentrations have more than halved in 20 years.

Speaking after the verdict, ClientEarth's environment lawyer Alan Andrews told Sky News: "We are delighted with the verdict that the Supreme Court has made which will save thousands of lives in the UK.

"The next government needs to make air pollution a top priority and they need to come up with a comprehensive plan to tackle pollution from road transport and especially diesel vehicles."

Mr Andrews said he was "baffled" the issue had not been mentioned by political parties during the election campaign and that a comprehensive plan was required to tackle diesel pollution.

"We think a national network of low-emission zones which keep the most polluted diesel vehicles out of our towns and cities is the best and most effective option," he said.

:: ClientEarth's legal case referred to 16 zones where nitrogen dioxide limits are being breached: West Midlands Urban Area, Greater Manchester Urban Area, West Yorkshire, Teesside, The Potteries, Kingston Upon Hull, Southampton, Glasgow, Eastern England, South East England, East Midlands, North West & Merseyside, Yorkshire & Humberside, West Midlands, North East England and Greater London Urban Area.
 
hopefully the a2's wont be hit hard due to lower emissions with trucks/buses/lorries being hit hard most. but like most governments its just another way to fleece us hardworking tax payers.

what will they charge for next AIR? you can bet your dollar on it with that so called think tank will devise a plan to charge us for it. i fear for the next generation of kids growing up! god knows how people will live never mind feed themselves!

cammy
 
hopefully the a2's wont be hit hard due to lower emissions with trucks/buses/lorries being hit hard most.

There was a post recently http://www.a2oc.net/forum/showthread.php?27063-London-s-ULEZ-Ultra-Low-Emmision-Zone about the plans to make London congestion zone an Ultra-Low-Emmision-Zone by September 2020. http://www.tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone?cid=ultra-low-emission-zone

A vehicle will have to be Euro 6 (diesel) or Euro 4 (petrol) to be exempt, otherwise a fee is payable (i.e. additional to the congestion charge fee). The proposed fee is £12.50 for cars and £100 of HGVs. Currently there are no Euro 6 diesel vehicles but that is the standard from September 2016.

There is a commitment that all double deck TfL buses will be hybrid and all single deck buses will be zero emission (at point of use) by 2020.

An A2 TDi is Euro 3, as I found out when I went to Germany. They have many cities with a Ultra-Low-Emmision-Zone which ban none compliant vehicles (as opposed to charging a fee). At least banning is a level playing field whereas with a fee there is no disincentive to the rich.

Classic vehicles will be exempt (i.e. more than 40 years old), so most A2 owners will have to wait almost 30 years; at least our A2s don't rust so there could be many still on the road!

With the likelihood of other cities following suit then used diesels cars could fall in price and loose their premium over petrol, especially as all petrol cars from 1 January 2006 are already Euro 4 compliant. I.e. in September 2020 only diesels cars built in the last 4 years (from Sep 2016) will be compliant compared to all petrol cars built in the last 14 years 9 months being compliant.

In retrospect the push to diesels to reduce CO2 was not perfect as it has increased NOX and "conned" many motorist.
 
It will only be older buses, new ones now have adblue systems that stop the harmfull emissions New being since 2009 ish Some get retrofitted with the systems. New Buses coaches are now Euro 6 .
 
No doubt they'll be companies that can retrofit the Adblue system to cars that need it.
 
Stop worrying I found this easy fix for catching those deisel fumes lol:eek:
 

Attachments

  • image.jpg
    image.jpg
    239.2 KB · Views: 381
It depends, I think the change was late 2003 which made the A2 1.4TDI EU4; ours is.

There is, in fact, no difference between early and late A2 Tdi's. It's just that the early Tdi's were tested to EU3; EU4 didn't exist.

RAB
 
I think that with over 1,000,000 Diesel cars on the road they are not going to disappear overnight and any additional charges etc. will be extremely unpopular.

I am expecting road tax penalties and increasing fuel costs for diesel cars and more restrictions like the low emission zones etc. etc.

I do seriously think that the petrol A2 owners will benefit from the concern and uncertainty that now surrounds Diesel cars.

I really don't think that anything seriously worrying will happen though with so many diesel owners around.

Steve B
 
Not quite, there are loads of Euro 6 diesel engines coming to the market an dmany on the market - any car type approved since Jan 1st 2015 (I think) needs to have EU6 petrol and diesel engines and all cars need to have them by September of this year (i.e. you can't sell an EU5 engined car of any sort after this time) but I have seen different dates from different sources so that may not be 100% correct; All of PSA's 'Blue' range of diesls are EU6, Mercedes' 'Bluetech' are EU6 and I think all Audi 'Ultra' models are EU6, for example.

I was quoting from the TfL site http://www.tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone?cid=ultra-low-emission-zone - could be out of date. As with many web sites, they do not date their pages. With only 6 months to go, then it would be surprising that Euro 6 vehicles don't exist otherwise there would be a lot of unsellable vehicles come 1 Sept. Perhaps there will be fire sales in August for those hard to shift vehicles!

EDIT: ULP, you are almost right according to a recent Auto Express article http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-ne...emissions-standards-what-do-they-mean-for-you There is a 12 month window with all vehicles manufactured from 1 Sept 2015 to be Euro 6 and all vehicles sold from 1 Sept 2016 having to be Euro 6.
 
Last edited:
There is, in fact, no difference between early and late A2 Tdi's. It's just that the early Tdi's were tested to EU3; EU4 didn't exist.

RAB

Hi RAB

We usually agree on most topics but in this case I'm sure there were some changes to the TDi 75 which coincided with Euro4. Main thing was the turbo where the casing was integrated into the exhaust manifold. I suspect the blading was also revised as the Stealth remaps usually show the early engines give more power but less torque than later engines which have more torque but lower max bhp. (think that's the right way round)
There was speculation that later cars had variable geometry turbos but that's been shown not to be the case.

Cheers Spike

Cheers Spike
 
This is mostly greenwash politics and nothing to do with what the true environmental impact of changing cars over from TDI to petrol or even PHEV/EVs.

"In retrospect the push to diesels to reduce CO2 was not perfect as it has increased NOX and "conned" many motorist."

NOX is actually much worse from petrol cars as they age. Past 50,000 miles a petrol actually emits more NOX than the eqv derv car.

Less than 1/3 of UK motorsists drive diesels so to claim they account for most of the NOX is complete nonsense.

Lets not forget the environmental benefits of train travel where 2/3 of rolling stock are Derv powered. The huge cosrt of electrification of our rail lines has environmental impact as well.

Lots more info here:

http://www.a2oc.net/forum/showthread.php?25721-Environmental-Politics-hitting-TDI-owners-soon


The greatest uptake of EVs has been in the Nrodic countries where there are massive incentives to do so. However, scientists are concerned that EVs are sold as emission free when in fact, based on EU power production, they are little better than petrol cars even over 100,000km and do not always make sense environmentally cf diesels. The biggest problem is ICE has come a long way fwd in the past 20 years but vehicles have become much heavier and larger (higher CdA) than the A2 production era. To move a 2 tonne car (even a Tesla S) requires a heck of a lot of energy and hence emissions......
 
Should someone that can afford a BMW i8 or Tesla be given £5000 of taxpayers money? The Plug In incentive can be a good idea if targeted towards those that can't afford to change. Perhaps we could lobby for a few hundred pounds plug in grant for Lupo 3Ls and Audi A2 TDIs to reduce start up emissions and aid re-cycling!

http://www.a2oc.net/forum/showthrea...sions-and-improving-fuel-economy-even-further

enjoy!

Having read your article in this month's Audi Driver magazine, I see you really are against the Plug-in Incentive scheme, or at least you're against giving funds to those who you judge to be wealthy enough to be able to afford the current crop of EVs. What I fail to understand though is how using at least 1 hour of electric to power a pre-heater will be of benefit, when by your own admission it only achieves a slightly quicker warm-up time for your car. Most of the funding would be taken up by installers anyway who inflate their charges.

I've bought an e-tron - I take delivery in September. I have taken advantage of the grant of £5000 available from the government and I'll also be having another £700 off them for the installation of a home charging point too. Is it wrong of me to do this, when it's available? I agree that there's a gulf between the likes of me and those who can afford to buy a BMW i8, costing almost 3 x the e-tron, but where do you draw a line? Do you start going down the means testing route?

From your Fuelly info, I see that you're getting just under 70mpg in your A2 and that's laudable, but easily achieved in an e-tron - I was getting around the 80mpg mark over the time I had the test car, and I had it a good couple of days.

Are EVs the future? Probably not, at least in their current incarnation. Until battery tech gets better and the methods of producing the electric to charge them becomes more sustainable, then they'll not be widely seen as being better than the fossil fuel alternatives. However, there always needs to be a transition and the e-tron is just that. It's the first properly clever and forward thinking mainstream Audi model released since the A2 and that's why I've bought one.

I'll still be keeping my A2 - it's probably the 'greener' vehicle if you use the 'it's greener to use an old car than build a new one' argument, but then if that were true, we'd all be tootling around in Model T Fords!
 
I agree

I would have an i3 in a heartbeat if I could afford one.
The electric vehicle is in its infancy but with the huge progress being made I am a fan of them already.

I haven't personally looked at an E Tron but it sounds like I should do.

I too would quite happily accept the grants for the vehicle and for the charging point.

Watching the E series championship races this week was a real eye opener and that series will no don't help advance the necessary technology.

it sounds like I will be a bit jealous of your E Tron Michael. Any chance of some pictures and initial thought when you get it, in the car park section perhaps?

steve B
 
As someone who looked seriously at the i3, I can tell you they're good, but the A3 outclasses them in virtually every way in the real world. I do like the carbon/polymer chassis construction and the interior packaging makes for a great, roomy interior, but the rest of the car is a let-down. Boot space is compromised by the battery pack and is even worse in the range extender version. The tyres too are unique to the i3 - 155 section 19" makes for expensive rubber that made even the 235/35 19 tyres for my TT look reasonable. You could get 4 A2 tyres and still have change after fitting for the price of one i3 tyre.

The e-tron is a remarkable car - it's faster than all but the 2 litre petrol engined versions and comes equipped with a huge spec list. Having used the Audi configurator, it works out around £4k more to spec up a 1.4TFSi to the same levels as the e-tron. This means that once the government has chipped in, I'm getting a total bargain and one that will accelerate quicker than my current TT too. It really is a no-brainer.

I'm not sure that the formula E series will be a technology driver as such - their needs are very different from real world needs. However, races such as TT Zero have advanced battery and motor design over the last 5 years and I can see that when I chip in the e-tron in 4 years time, there'll be EVs out there with ranges of 500+ miles and charge times of around 2 hours or less.

No need to be even a little bit jealous - just go and order one before the grants run out!

I shall update the appropriate section of this forum when it arrives and will also be doing a long-run feature too, as I'll be doing a road trip to Italy in it starting the day after ADI, so it'll be nicely run in on my return.

Cheers,

Michael
 
Hi Michael

thanks fir the information about the E Tron

i am looking forward to the thread when you get it.

Steve B
 
Back
Top