FSI Injectors stuck in manifold?

[Indi]

Having recently done the cambelt on my FSI project, I needed to remove the intake manifold, as the engine light was on and the arm on the vacuum actuator for the manifold flaps had snapped. The plan was just to clean the manifold, make sure the flaps were free and moving properly, and try and repair the actuator arm as I've seen a few people do here.

However the lower manifold was stuck onto the ends of the injectors, and I couldn't free it by hand, in the end having to lever it off, sliding a piece of plywood into the opening so I didn't damage the gasket surface. This took far more force than I think it should, and appears to have pulled the injectors out slightly, as i belive the metal spacer bracket pieces should be flat not bent up at the ends as mine now are.

I think my options now are:

At a minimum, pull the injectors and replace all the seals, and then clean the manifold and repair the actuator as I intended. Probably also try to clean the valves and intake ports as there is carbon build up, but at least use a straw taped to the end of a hoover to clean out debris that fell in (as I neglected to hoover the engine before removing the manifold)

Alternatively I could remove the head, or maybe even pull the engine in order to improve access and do a more thorough clean and reverb, though I'm reluctant to do this as it was supposed to be a quick project, just needing cambelt and a manifold clean.

I guess the third option is that this is perhaps as good of a chance as any to swap the engine, either for another similar size but slightly more powerful ICE, or perhaps an electric conversion, but I don't think I really want to embark on either of these projects right now


I'm undecided what my course of action will be, so thought I'd ask to hear what other peoples thoughts and recommendations are!

cheers,
Indi




Since poking around with it I also noticed that the exhaust heatshield protecting the drive shaft joint is missing (possibly why the joint has a slight oil leak), the mount for the upper manifold part that connects to the lower two bolts was missing so the manifold was only held on by the 5 top bolts (I assume these missing bits are due to possibly a death pipe replacement in the past?)
A rear abs sensor isn't working, and the pressed wishbones are rusting out, so I've got a new set of cast ones on the way.

 

[Indi]

Good Afternoon,

This looks decidedly odd to me, I have never heard of a 'metal spacer bracket' with the injectors????? I think somebody has made modifications. It looks to me this strange bracket holds the injectors in which is why they will not come out. Have you noticed the 'first' injector is cracked. Lower inlet manifold looks wrong, what is its part number?

Andy

Hi, the lower intake manifold has already been removed (so what you can see in the pictures is the head) I didn’t initially plan to remove the injectors but removing the lower manifold seems to have pulled the injectors out slightly, bending the brackets.
The brackets are referred to in the workshop manual so it’s all oem (part number 036133029 - retainer for injector)

I had seen the crack on the injector, but it is just one of the seals I think, and the diagonal split is supposed to be there as far as I can see.

These are an injector seal set, so I think it’s the equivalent of the blue ring.

 

[Andrew]

Good Afternoon Again,

Ignore my post, I deleted it earlier, I realised I was looking at the pictures completely wrongly, sorry.

By way of a positive contribution I have found this picture courtesy of BiggDogg that also shows the metal injector retainer bent which suggests this is normal.

Andy

 

[Indi]

Good Afternoon Again,

Ignore my post, I deleted it earlier, I realised I was looking at the pictures completely wrongly.

By way of a positive contribution I have found this picture courtesy of BigDogg that also shows the bracket bent which suggests this is normal.

View attachment 115456

Andy

Ooh so maybe I haven’t damaged anything then…
It took a lot of force, levering with a large screwdriver too get off, so I sort of assumed I had damaged something, but now I’m wondering if I try risking putting it all back together as it is

Thanks
Indi

 

[kp 115]

Hi, the lower intake manifold has already been removed (so what you can see in the pictures is the head) I didn’t initially plan to remove the injectors but removing the lower manifold seems to have pulled the injectors out slightly, bending the brackets.
The brackets are referred to in the workshop manual so it’s all oem (part number 036133029 - retainer for injector)

I had seen the crack on the injector, but it is just one of the seals I think, and the diagonal split is supposed to be there as far as I can see.View attachment 115455
These are an injector seal set, so I think it’s the equivalent of the blue ring.

Yes you’re correct the split closes up when compressed.

 

[MickAli]

Ooh so maybe I haven’t damaged anything then…
It took a lot of force, levering with a large screwdriver too get off, so I sort of assumed I had damaged something, but now I’m wondering if I try risking putting it all back together as it is

Thanks
Indi

Nice work Indi, I will be doing this same work in the spring. No issues just pre-emptive really.
Can you tell me what gaskets are needed for reassembly of manifold please.
Also I would renew the injector seals if I were you as you're in there.
Mick

 

[Indi]

Nice work Indi, I will be doing this same work in the spring. No issues just pre-emptive really.
Can you tell me what gaskets are needed for reassembly of manifold please.
Also I would renew the injector seals if I were you as you're in there.
Mick

Just the o rings and split rings, or do you mean pull the enjectors and renew the Teflon seals too?

I’ve not yet ordered the gaskets but I’ll just be searching on AUTODOC for the part numbers shown here https://www.lllparts.co.uk/catalogs/audi/RDW/A2/248/1/133/133005

 

[MickAli]

Just the o rings and split rings, or do you mean pull the enjectors and renew the Teflon seals too?

I’ve not yet ordered the gaskets but I’ll just be searching on AUTODOC for the part numbers shown here https://www.lllparts.co.uk/catalogs/audi/RDW/A2/248/1/133/133005

Your call obviously. Depends how far you want to go. If you go for pulling the injectors then have them sonic cleaned while you're at it. Personally I won't be doing that.
I'll use that link for the gaskets though, cheers

 

[Evripidis]

Having done this before twice, you will have to clean the back of the valves too. It would be the rudest thing not to do at this point.

You'd have to turn each piston at TDC and have a go at it. Tools used:

1. rifle cleaning brushes.
2. vacuum.
3. carb cleaner.
4. swear jar.
5. new lower back.

If you can get them walnut blasted then even better. There are some sort of kits on ebay but where I live, it would cost an arm to get them.

The injectors will come off but you run the risk of breaking them if you pull too hard and at the wrong angle. At first do not pull. Just twist left and right. Use penetrant and then twist and so on. At the point where they twist freely pull a bit then twist again. You have to do this 4 times.

When reinstalling you need a tool to compress the teflon rings to the right shape. Instead of a tool use a suitably sized rubber hose and a jubilee clip around it and the injector. Compress the clip tight and leave it for a bit. Take it off and compare it to one that is still on another injector. Test fit and try again.

I have done the above and mine hasn't leaked petrol or misfired. I use an ultrasonic tank to clean the injectors themselves but in all honesty you should get them flow tested as well.

Evros

 

[Indi]

Having done this before twice, you will have to clean the back of the valves too. It would be the rudest thing not to do at this point.

You'd have to turn each piston at TDC and have a go at it. Tools used:

1. rifle cleaning brushes.
2. vacuum.
3. carb cleaner.
4. swear jar.
5. new lower back.

If you can get them walnut blasted then even better. There are some sort of kits on ebay but where I live, it would cost an arm to get them.

The injectors will come off but you run the risk of breaking them if you pull too hard and at the wrong angle. At first do not pull. Just twist left and right. Use penetrant and then twist and so on. At the point where they twist freely pull a bit then twist again. You have to do this 4 times.

When reinstalling you need a tool to compress the teflon rings to the right shape. Instead of a tool use a suitably sized rubber hose and a jubilee clip around it and the injector. Compress the clip tight and leave it for a bit. Take it off and compare it to one that is still on another injector. Test fit and try again.

I have done the above and mine hasn't leaked petrol or misfired. I use an ultrasonic tank to clean the injectors themselves but in all honesty you should get them flow tested as well.

Evros

Yeah I was thinking I should probably have a go at the valves, they are looking a bit gummed up, the rifle brushes sound handy

I'm not aware of any issues with the injectors and was hoping to maybe just clean the manifold, ports and valves, leaving the injectors as they are. Would you recommend pulling them while I am here anyway then, or is it likely to be ok if they've not been having any problems?

Cheers