NOT EASILY SOLVED garage to make up Kunifer brake pipes

Alan_uk

Alan_uk

A2OC Donor
I need to sort out new rear brake pipes for my axle restore. I see many on the forum recommend Kunifer. Can anyone recommend a company within 1 hrs drive of Trowbridge Wiltshire (we're 20 mins south of Bath) that can supply and competently make these using the old as a pattern? As a safety item I prefer not to do them myself.

Thanks
 
I concur with @audifan - on a couple of my cars now the rear brake pipes have come up as being deficient for various age-related reasons, and the garage that I use have made up new ones each time - chatting to the guys it is one of the core elements of their training and the 'papers' that time-served/qualified mechanics have should indicate that they are proficient in the process.

Even went there for work reasons when needing to use a piece of copper brake line as a custom heating coil for a piece of lab equipment and they did the ends with the conical brakeline press so that I could use a threaded pressure connector to put the pipework together (after having failed miserably with a cheapo Ebay tool that failed before the brakeline flare was fully expanded).
 
66Beetle said:
No problem making them yourself. You just need a Sykes Picavant Hydraulic Flaring Tool, Roll of Kunifer and the End Fittings.
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I'm with 66Beetle, for what it will cost to pay a mechanic to bend the pipes you could get all of the tools and do it yourself.
An alternative would be to take the pipes to a Motor factor that flares pipes. They measure your old pipes and flare both ends of a correct length coil of pipe.
 
philward said:
I'm with 66Beetle, for what it will cost to pay a mechanic to bend the pipes you could get all of the tools and do it yourself.
An alternative would be to take the pipes to a Motor factor that flares pipes. They measure your old pipes and flare both ends of a correct length coil of pipe.
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Don’t think it likely anyone would Bend the Pipes to shape for you unless they were fitting them to the Car. In my experience only Factory Manufactured Pipes are ready bent to shape. Usual method is to make the Pipe to the required Length then hand shape the Bends as you are fitting the Pipe(s). Kunifer can be shaped by hand very easily Even easier using Copper Brake Pipe. Fittings and Rolls of Pipe do not cost much. Sykes Picavant Hydraulic Flaring Tool was a little over £100 when I bought mine. The basic mechanical Flaring Tools do not make a nice job of the Flares. They tend to put marks on the Pipe which is not supposed to happen. I bought one of those first then took it back for a Refund when I realised how bad a job it made. I was fitting all new Brake Hydraulics to my 1972 VW Type 3 Variant at the time, so wanted to make a good job.

Steve U
 
66Beetle said:
Don’t think it likely anyone would Bend the Pipes to shape for you unless they were fitting them to the Car. In my experience only Factory Manufactured Pipes are ready bent to shape. Usual method is to make the Pipe to the required Length then hand shape the Bends as you are fitting the Pipe(s). Kunifer can be shaped by hand very easily Even easier using Copper Brake Pipe. Fittings and Rolls of Pipe do not cost much. Sykes Picavant Hydraulic Flaring Tool was a little over £100 when I bought mine. The basic mechanical Flaring Tools do not make a nice job of the Flares. They tend to put marks on the Pipe which is not supposed to happen. I bought one of those first then took it back for a Refund when I realised how bad a job it made. I was fitting all new Brake Hydraulics to my 1972 VW Type 3 Variant at the time, so wanted to make a good job.

Steve U
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I've had it, mechanic made the bends. cost me a fortune so I bought the tools and now do it myself.

I bought a tool, not Skes Picavant, but it looks the same; just much cheaper.
 
I found a company in Somerset https://www.brakequipsomerset.co.uk that makes Ezibend Copper Nickel Tube brake pipes. Will make up my 2 pipes (see photo) of circa 600 & 1500mm for £80 including vat including the bends and standard fittings.

Given that the OEM ones from Europe cost c£60 + any vat/duty on import then that sound reasonable.

Audi A2 old brake pipes.jpg
 
Have you tried an 'old skool' car spares shop. A good few years ago my local Bullseye shop made some copper brake pipes with correct ends quite cheaply. I measured them with a piece of string. I did have to shape them tho.
 
On Tuesday I went to get some new Ezibend copper nickel brake pipes made up at Brakequip in Brean, Somerset, some 2 hours away much down twisty little roads.

Got the shivers on arriving as it looked like a building site that's been underway for 10+ years. Then phone jammed! Manage to reboot eventually and called the guy who then appeared and opened up a container that was his workshop. Then he couldn't find enough of the pipe - said it was unusually thin. Some many phone calls and he located some fairly nearby. So went for lunch and returned about 2 hours later.

New Ezibend copper nickle brake pipes lr.jpg New Ezibend copper nickle brake pipes end lr.jpg

Nice bends and looks a good copy but I'm not pleased with the slight tarnish/corrosion on the nuts. I will paint with Kurust and maybe a thin layer of copper grease when fitting.

Then there was confusion of the price quoted over a poor phone line but we settled on £50.

Took a longer main roads back and the A2 was a joy to drive as it settled down to 50-60mph.

Thanks to all who offered suggestions.
 
If anyone ever decided to make up themselves, make sure you get a quality flaring tool, and not some cheap amazon item. Ive got a draper expert 23312 bit of kit and its so much better than the £20 sets you can buy.
 
Alan_uk said:
On Tuesday I went to get some new Ezibend copper nickel brake pipes made up at Brakequip in Brean, Somerset, some 2 hours away much down twisty little roads.

Got the shivers on arriving as it looked like a building site that's been underway for 10+ years. Then phone jammed! Manage to reboot eventually and called the guy who then appeared and opened up a container that was his workshop. Then he couldn't find enough of the pipe - said it was unusually thin. Some many phone calls and he located some fairly nearby. So went for lunch and returned about 2 hours later.

View attachment 114503 View attachment 114502

Nice bends and looks a good copy but I'm not pleased with the slight tarnish/corrosion on the nuts. I will paint with Kurust and maybe a thin layer of copper grease when fitting.

Then there was confusion of the price quoted over a poor phone line but we settled on £50.

Took a longer main roads back and the A2 was a joy to drive as it settled down to 50-60mph.

Thanks to all who offered suggestions.
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Are you sure that is a DIN flare? Looks like SAE to me http://www.fedhillusa.com/?page=flare

Edit, I have also just now discovered that UNF SAE unions will screw into M10 * 1 female threads but will be far from safe. You need to check out what you have been sold.

Edit 2, this is very difficult to check as both SAE and DIN take an 11mm spanner. This is the easiest way:
SAE unions have an internal taper that sits on the inside taper of the flare and a thread OD of 9.5 mm
DIN unions have a flat end that seats on the inside flat of the flare and a thread OD of 9.9 mm
 
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k7aus said:
If anyone ever decided to make up themselves, make sure you get a quality flaring tool, and not some cheap amazon item. Ive got a draper expert 23312 bit of kit and its so much better than the £20 sets you can buy.
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I could be wrong but the correct tool for A2 is Draper 23313 ISO DIN?
 
Interestingly nobody has neither agreed nor disagreed with my comments. I thought it best to post a How-to on this subject. In the last but one picture the difference between the DIN flare I produced and the one supplied by Brakequip can be clearly seen.

How-to flare a brake pipe.

Increasingly our A2s are failing MOT tests due to corroded brake pipes. Members are sourcing Audi pipes and having pipes made but sourcing pipes is becoming more difficult. Some members have advised that it is better to make your own pipes and I would agree. Facing this task for the first...
www.a2oc.net
 
philward said:
Are you sure that is a DIN flare? Looks like SAE to me http://www.fedhillusa.com/?page=flare

Edit, I have also just now discovered that UNF SAE unions will screw into M10 * 1 female threads but will be far from safe. You need to check out what you have been sold.

Edit 2, this is very difficult to check as both SAE and DIN take an 11mm spanner. This is the easiest way:
SAE unions have an internal taper that sits on the inside taper of the flare and a thread OD of 9.5 mm
DIN unions have a flat end that seats on the inside flat of the flare and a thread OD of 9.9 mm
Click to expand...

Many thanks Phil for spotting this. I've just managed to get the old nuts released from the flares:

Old and new bake pipes ends.jpg



I measured the threads and both the old and new nuts are 9.8mm OD on the threads. On the old nuts the unthreaded part is 9.3mm.

I just spoke to the guy and he said his has never known a problem and that copper nickel pipes are softer and will bed in. My worry is that the full thread on the new nuts may not seat well if the female brake hose/cylinder has a recess for the non threaded part.

However, he did offer to change them though it means a 5 hour round trip. I could offer him £20 for the pipes and bending and then get new flares and nuts locally if I can find somewhere reliable.
 
@Alan_uk no problem, I felt a bit bad posting it after the trouble you have gone to. It only came about because I intended to support @k7aus comment and I spotted your flare was wrong. I actually think it is more wrong than your supplier is admitting, look at the unions, is the old one flat with a chamfer and is the new one concave?
 
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Hi Phil @philward No need to feel bad. It's got to be right where safety is concerned and I'm a bit of a perfectionist like you ;)

Photos of the unions (I presume you mean the females)

brake hose ___________________________________cylinder
Brake pipe Female end.jpg
Cylinder Female.jpg


As far as I can tell, there is not any narrowing where the non threaded part goes, if anything the bore widens out. There is about 2mm unthreaded. Both components are Bosch.

Edit: can't check the females on the car as the car is on the road. The brake pipes in the earlier posts are from the donor axle, a 2003 tdi - I'm presuming my 2004 tdi is a match. Anyway, the new pipes go into the new hoses and cylinder in the photos.
 
@Alan_uk easiest to draw a rough picture. On the left is what I thought you may have been supplied. In the middle is what you should have been supplied. On the right, as old and new threads are close to 10mm is possibly what you have been supplied. I would tighten one into a female thread and see if you get a DIN flare. Not ideal as you will be reforming formed copper alloy (it could work harden and become brittle) but as your supplier implies, it has not failed yet.

Z.JPG
 
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