Questionable Climate Control

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Yip... you do need to use the system in winter... but then we should not eat MacDonalds either and we (all) do... So I never use it in winter as I should! But 67000 miles later and my AC still pumps ice cold air out without ever having had a refill.

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[img=left]http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2002-2/11882/a2andme2.gif[/img=left]
2001 A2 TDI SE Crystal Blue with Open Sky, 6CD Symphony II, BOSE upgrade, DIS and HALF a winterpack!

iPAQ 3970 with Sat-Nav sleeve, rear cupholders, luggage net and floppy wiper!

http://www.audi-a2.co.uk/uk23.htm
 
I was told by a Fiat dealer when I picked up my Punto a few years back that the A/C needs to be run for about 20 minutes at least once a month - even in the winter. This seems to tie in with what Phil has been told by his dealer.

Don't drink drive! Not only is it socially unaceptable, it also harms A2's.
Was a 1.4SE petrol. http://www.audi-a2.co.uk/uk14.htm http://www.audi-a2.co.uk/safety.htm
New A2 - Ebony Black, Red Leather, CC, Symphony + all the previous options we had.
 
I always keep it on in the winter. Keeps the seals in the system good and it helps to clear up the windows.

Dennis de Held

Amulet Red 1.4 Tdi
 
Well, the A2 spent the day in the dealers workshop today.

And after 7 hours the diagnosis is...? There is no fault. "Eh?" I hear you say? Yes, thats right. Apparently there is nothing wrong at all. "How did they arrive at this verdict?" you ask. Well, the answer is that they held a thermometer to the vents and the reading they took was within the target temperature of +5c. And thats it. They did nothing else.
This is despite that fact that I had explained that the problem is at its most apparent when the engine has been running for a while. If I turn the engine off and then restart the AC blows like an arctic wind again. I was assisted by a very helpful chap, but he explained that he was not aware of this detail.

Incredible!!! I'm so pi**ed off. My dealer is not altogether easy for me to get to, and now I have to call back in the morning and arrange yet another time to take it in so they can take a proper look at it!

I cant believe that they only took a temperature reading. I mean, the weather is awful down here today. Pretty cold really. I reckon I could sit in the car outside and fart on a thermometer and it would read less than 5c! In all seriousness, in fairness to the chap who was looking at it it did appear that there was not a problem. However he agreed that if he was aware of the intermittent nature of the fault he would have made more checks. Plus the fact, why didnt they call me? Where was the "Can you confirm the nature of the problem 'cause we cant find it" phone call? :(

I arrived home today and before turning the engine off I Put the AC on 'LO' and performed the same check I did before;
ECON off, ECON on, no difference. And air cold, but not noticeably chilled. Turn engine off and restart. ECON on, same as before. ECON off, FREEZING! Something is definitely being 'reset' when the engine is restarted. I'm going to call my dealer tomorrow and insist that an engineer comes out to meet me when I arrive before I turn my engine off so that he can see the same.

One thing is for sure. I'm determined to get it sorted before the last of the hot weather disappears! Thats if it hasnt already of course!;)

Phil. TDi Sport, silver, with Climate and OpenSky.
 
Hi Phil,

Cant remember the exact figure, however 5degC sounds correct for the vent outlet temp, however it seems the dealer has not understood the problem (or has not listened).

Unfortunately this may be another case of the dealer mechanics/engineers being out of their depth. Like all systems in a modern car now, they are really engineered, and I dont believe any dealer can really keep up with it - they are given a list of known problems & answers plus a trouble shooting list to go through - if there not told of the problem, they really are just guessing. Doesn't help you though!!!

As you are intending, I would propose the dealer measures the temperatures in both cases as you have described and get them to put it in writing!

Q. Have you tried manually controlling the system (i.e. not in AUTO). Put the fan speed on low, and then gradually bring the temp down. Listen for the actuators moving (you will hear them pulse) - once you are on max cool, your should hear the actuators 'strain & click' and then stop assuming the doors do actually close - do you get max cool in this condition?

Kaine
 
Hi again Kaine,

Thanks for your continued assistance, I'll try what you have suggested and see what happens. All I have really done so far is set the CC to LO with AUTO off and the fan speed high, trying to achieve a cold blast.

I shall let you know!

Phil. TDi Sport, silver, with Climate and OpenSky.
 
Update - the A2 was back in the dealership today.

When I arrived, I kept the engine running and demonstrated the problem. The difference in temperature before and after restarting the engine was clear and the service manager agreed that something was amiss. A good start!

At the end of the working day I returned and was met by the chief technician who had been looking at my A2. He proceeded to spend a good 20 minutes with me explaining what he had looked for and what he had done.
A result of a full diagnostic apparently revealed just one fault, an open circuit on one of the electric motors that regulates the air doors. He explained that when the CC comes to life, the doors are passed through their full range of motion in both directions in order for the ECU to determine the fully open and fully closed positions. A fault here could result in the ECU thinking doors are closed when in fact they are not, meaning that refridgerated air may be mixing with warmer air.

So this fault was rectified and diagnostics now give green lights across the board. So I'm in a bit of a 'suck-it-and-see' situation now, and agreed with the technician when he asked me to monitor the CC over the next couple of days to see if what he's done has cured the problem.

The good news is that it certainly seems better! Its kinda warm 'round my way today so the AC has been on. Sure enough, I got a good blast of chilly air when setting off on my journey home from the gym, and after only 10 minutes or so the fan speed was dropping as the cabin temp fell closer to the selected 18c. Looking good, fingers crossed!

I picked up some interesting bits of info from the Chief Techie too, he was genuinely very helpful.
Apparently the pressure in the AC is at its highest when the AC is first activated, about 12 bar apparently. When the AC is left on this pressure can drop to 4-5 bar as the AC does its job, meaning that the temperature output can fluctuate a bit. I did'nt get the impression that this was a fob-off.
Also, Audi's targets for cabin temperature with AC on is +5c or 12c below outside temp, whichever is the greater. This means that if outside temp is > 30c, then you will never actually achieve 18c in the cabin, even though this is the lowest selectable temp on the CC. If your sceptical this could sound like a bit of a get out clause, but I guess the CC needs set performance tolerances, and this seems reasonable.

All in all, despite the slow start my Audi dealer has been very good. The service level was stepped right up when they realised a solution was looking less than simple to find, and everyone was courteous throughout. They've even offered to come and pick the A2 up from my place of work if the problem arises again, so that I dont have to wait for a courtesy car. Top marks Vincents Audi!

Kaine - you were right on the money buddy! Air mix doors. I owe you a cold beer! Well, within 12c of ambient temp anyway! Maybe I'll catch you at a social, or if your ever near Exeter...

Thanks everyone else for your replies also, Hopefully this thread will come in useful to anyone else who happens to experience a similiar problem...

Phil. TDi Sport, silver, with Climate and OpenSky.
 
Phew what a saga! But glad you got it sorted! (Hopefully!)

____________________________________________________________________________________
[img=left]http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2002-2/11882/a2andme2.gif[/img=left]
2001 A2 TDI SE Crystal Blue with Open Sky, 6CD Symphony II, BOSE upgrade, DIS and HALF a winterpack!

iPAQ 3970 with Sat-Nav sleeve, rear cupholders, luggage net and floppy wiper!

http://www.audi-a2.co.uk/uk23.htm
 
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