rear brake nipple broke off

Mr Angry

Mr Angry

A2OC Donor
hi guys,

*** while i have my car up on all fours how easy is it to access the gearbox oil and what part do i need to remove bolts. i will try and search but i seem to have no luck with finding guides lately :( ***

after successfully changing discs, pads and re-threading the hole with the helicoil kit, i am now faced with another problem, which is a broken nipple on the rear drum. what is the best option to sort this out? removing the drum only to open up another can of worms. no doubt this will consist of changing rear shoes, cylinder & brake drums. and with the corrosion ive already witnessed it looks like its going to be a full overhaul :(

IMG_20170928_135029_resized_20170928_021705676.jpg

any suggestions? the only reason this happened was to drain the brake fluid and bleed the brakes after the fronts were done but it looks like its going to cost me now! its a good learning curve but a bloody headache at the same time.

is it easier to change the brake cylinder rather than drill out the existing broken nipple???

ive seen a pagid kit from europarts along with brake drums for £94 should i just buy the whole lot and change accordingly???

cheers

cammy
 
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not worth trying to drill out the broken nipple on the rear drum brake cylinders. New cylinders will not be more than £15 each so just replace them and get shiny new nipples as well (Oh har sir ....)
unless you are at a VERY high mileage the drums should be OK and the shoes likely OK as well, shoes are about £20 when I bought a set of Mintex ones last year, worth ordering a set of retaining springs and caps as these are normally rusty and at 15+ years old fall apart when removed
It is not a complex braking system on the A2 so nothing to be phased by

Cheers,
 
depronman said:
not worth trying to drill out the broken nipple on the rear drum brake cylinders. New cylinders will not be more than £15 each so just replace them and get shiny new nipples as well (Oh har sir ....)
unless you are at a VERY high mileage the drums should be OK and the shoes likely OK as well, shoes are about £20 when I bought a set of Mintex ones last year, worth ordering a set of retaining springs and caps as these are normally rusty and at 15+ years old fall apart when removed
It is not a complex braking system on the A2 so nothing to be phased by

Cheers,
Click to expand...

I agree that it is not worth the effort of drilling out the bleed nipple, not only that but you don't want drill swarf anywhere near the brakes.

If you HAVE to use the car until you get the part you could consider slackening off the brake pipe nut to allow the air to escape during bleeding.

Basically get someone to pump the pedal until hard and keep the pressure on, then loosen the brake pipe connector on the wheel cylinder a little until the air and fluid can escape. Get your "helper" to keep his foot down until you have re-tightened the connector (not too tight at first, just tight enough to stop it leaking). Then repeat this a couple of times until you find the air has all gone and the pedal is no longer spongey. Tighten the connector fully and that should get you by.

Effectively you are using the connector as the bleed nipple.

Steve B
 
thanks guys....

i have a few photos for you to judge :) there is a slight lip on the inner side of drum probably due to age. i was expecting major issues of trying to prise the drum off but had no problems wotsoever.

IMG-20170928-WA0011_resized_20170928_063216683.jpegIMG-20170928-WA0013_resized_20170928_063217088.jpegIMG-20170928-WA0015_resized_20170928_063216902.jpeg

so do you reckon i need...

1. new drums
2. new shoes
3. just replace the cylynder as suggested
4. all of the above :D

also how easy is it to reassemble the shoes when i replace the cylinder? and if i do replace it does this mean i need to replace the drivers side too?

cheers

cammy
 
Am i missing something? the MO was to change front discs and pads, did the rears need bleeding?

I would be changing just the wheel cylinder here. some good life left in those yet.
 
Mr Angry said:
thanks guys....

i have a few photos for you to judge :) there is a slight lip on the inner side of drum probably due to age. i was expecting major issues of trying to prise the drum off but had no problems wotsoever.

View attachment 31558View attachment 31559View attachment 31560

so do you reckon i need...

1. new drums
2. new shoes
3. just replace the cylynder as suggested
4. all of the above :D

also how easy is it to reassemble the shoes when i replace the cylinder? and if i do replace it does this mean i need to replace the drivers side too?

cheers

cammy
Click to expand...

It is always best to do the bakes in pairs, the cost should be quite low and you want even braking. Uneven braking is dangerous, so best do both sides.

If your rear brake drum came off easily then that is an indication that something is not quite right.

They are self-adjusting and so should be quite tight, even more so if there is a lip. If they slide off easily then that would suggest that there was a LOT of brake pedal travel, because the shoes are too far away from the drum.

I do have to point out that changing the shoes and cylinders will NOT be a simple job, it is certainly doable but I would bet it will take you three times as long as you expect.

The MOST important thing is to only do ONE side at a time. You will definitely need to be able to see hoiw the springs are positioned etc, so if you leave one side alone you can use that as a reference.

good luck and get the sticky plasters ready for the abrasions you might get doing the job.

I am exaggerating but only slightly, I won't do the rear shoes myself any more!.

Steve B
 
Mr Angry said:
thanks guys....

i have a few photos for you to judge :) there is a slight lip on the inner side of drum probably due to age. i was expecting major issues of trying to prise the drum off but had no problems wotsoever.

View attachment 31558View attachment 31559View attachment 31560

so do you reckon i need...

1. new drums
2. new shoes
3. just replace the cylynder as suggested
4. all of the above :D

also how easy is it to reassemble the shoes when i replace the cylinder? and if i do replace it does this mean i need to replace the drivers side too?

cheers

cammy
Click to expand...

Just the cylinder and only the one unless the other side is leaking
From what I can see the drums are ok but the inside is just as important and the shoes and springs look in good condition
Cheers


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
i just checked europarts and 3 different brake cylinders show. three of them are pagid all different prices, which one do i buy details as follows...

£12.49 Brake SystemATE/ FAGDiameter [mm]17,5MaterialGrey Cast IronFitting Position RearFitted Quantity 1PR Number 1KBOther Information (NON ABS) IS IT THIS ONE BECAUSE I DONT HAVE REAR DISCS PADS???

£26.99 Diameter [mm]15,87MaterialAluminiumWeight [kg]0,24Fitting Position RearFitted Quantity 1PR Number 1KROther Information (WITH ABS)

£21.49 Brake SystemATEDiameter [mm]17,46MaterialAluminiumWeight [kg]0,24Date From 06/2000Date To 07/2005Fitting Position RearFitted Quantity 1PR Number 1KR

i typed in my reg and this is what it spat out. are there different performance cylinders? not sure which to buy here :/

cammy
 
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That is why I suggested doing both sides, you need both to be the same or you might get different braking performance from each side.

If you can get an exact match then you can get away with just replacing the one cylinder, but it is not always easy to know if they are an exact match unless you buy both sides together (especially with shoes and cylinders)

I don't know for sure which is the right one from the list but your car definitely has ABS and so the first one is NOT a match for you.


Steve B
 
thanks for throwing a spanner in the works steve lol

does anyone else know which of the two i need from the above list?

also, can the cylinder be removed without removing the shoes by pressing the pistons in and sliding it out and then sliding the new one in?

cheers

cammy
 
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looks like you will need to pop a piston out of the original cylinder and measure the diameter of the piston, alternative it to ring Euro with the reg number and vin number, they have MUCH better checking facilities in the store to establish the correct part than their on line web site as
Worst case is take the original off when you go to collect the new ones, of by both and return the one that is wrong

As long as the replacement is the same as the original there is no safety issue with only fitting a new cylinder to one side, if it was shoes or the drum itself then ALWAYS fit in pairs

As for trying to fit the cylinder without removing the shoes, this is highly unlikely. However once the pin and cap and spring is removed (2 off) that hold the shoe to the back plate the you can slide the shoes assembly of the pistons and lift the shoes assy away a little. This should allow enough room to remove the cylinder and fit the new one. However it is honestly not that difficult to remove the shoes totally and re assemble once the new cylinder is fitted, take pictures so you know where the springs go, there is always the option to look at the other side if you are not sure what goes were

Cheers,
 
Cammy,

I believe the smaller cylinder is for the 1.2 TDI, although not sure if the other two are the same. Seems like one is steel and the other aluminium.

One tip when you remove the old one, take out the securing bolts and use a spanner on the brake union to keep it still and turn the cylinder to loosen the pipe. Don't turn the pipe as the union may be seized and you could end up twisting the pipe and having to replace that as well.

Good luck tomorrow.

Steve
 
update:

i managed to get the bolt off but the problem i have now is tightening the brake pipe to the cylinder. i cable tied the pistons together so i could tighten the cylinder to the brake pipe as the nut on the pipe is seized and wont move at all. it seems that the cylinder has reached its last turn and needs that extra half turn to stop it from leaking however, i cant do this because of the seized pipe end :/ im hitting a brick wall every time :(

if i didnt experience the problems ive had i would say changing the front and rear brakes was an easy job but the simplest of things make it more difficult to complete.

can i use a blowtorch on the end of the brake pipe as when i use a spanner i can see the pipe twisting and dont want to open up another can of worms.

im about to go crazy on this thing!

next update: ive messed up the threads on the union with vice grips trying to free it up but no luck. can i cut the existing pipe and replace with a new union? if so, what size is the brake pipe 2,3 or 4mm pipe? as i need to buy a pipe cutter and refit the new union.

thanks
 
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can anyone advise on the above? i want to try and get this done over the weekend if possible, failing that i will need to put it back together maybe with plumbers tape (if you can use that) to stop any kind of leak!

or can you buy a full brake pipe for the required side?

cheers
 
you are now into a new brake pipe, not sure how long a pipe it is, follow it to its other end and hope that it will undo from there
I do feel for you, some simple jobs do get complicated when things don't quite go to plan
a local motor factor should be able to make you up a new brake pipe with fittings and flange the pipe etc

Cheers,
 
ok new pipe from audi is £7+ but they wont get it until monday or tuesday and thats if i pay for it before 12.30 :(

can someone tell me if the fsi brake pipe is exactly the same as the tdi? part number is 8z0611763n for the tdi not sure what it is for the fsi.

thanks
 
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+1 for Steve's post certainly a different pipe on the disk brake rear axle compared to the drum brake axle, so Steve is correct as long as you don't have the TDI90
 
thanks for all the help guys :)

i have now done the front discs & pads. replaced a seized brake pipe and changed the brake cylinder on the rear left side of motor. i managed to find a blow torch hidden away in the garage, used this to free up the seized nipple on the other side and came unstuck first time :D so much quicker and easier than the first attempt and no damage lol but a learning curve all the same.

after bleeding all the brakes from back to front using about 750ml of brake fluid it does seem that its still a little spongy when comparing my a2 to this. im not really sure what to expect when braking in this car as mine is a lot firmer/harder on the pedal. any ideas what i can try to resolve this?

i should also point out that the handbrake is not working properly :/ i adjusted the nut on the handbrake underneath the cigarette holder? is this the correct procedure? and is there anything else to try out?

cheers
 
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