TDI75 Cranking issue. Difficult to start

Johnhenry

Johnhenry

Member
Alun the tdi must have caught wind that we are looking at FSIs as hes pulled a proper howler on us.

Mrs told me yesterday that starting has been an issue then last few days, symptoms and updates as follows.

- new rebuilt EWQ gearbox and clutch fitted about 2 weeks ago by VAG specialist with good record (I'm confident it's done well/correctly)

- problem seems most prevalent when cold, once hot I've been told it goes away, I'll be confirming today as it seems to be getting worse.

- when turning the key, (normally 2 clicks then crank). On 2 clicks, all dash lights come on, glow plugs on and off normally. On Crank, nothing, dash lights go off, no dimming.

- key wiggles around a lot in the barrel

- this morning, I have removed, sanded, wd40'd and are attached earth strap and cables on the top of the starter motor covered by a plastic cowl. No change in symptoms.

- Battery voltage last night was 12.49v, this morning (very cold outside) 12.15v, alternator charging strongly. When you get it going, cranks strongly, no issue with engine firing up.

This morning I've tried to rule out earth strap but i need guidance on next steps.

- IGNITION BARREL, wiggling key didn't seem to do anything BUT, I tried backing they key off very slightly between 2nd click and cranking, and I could hear the starter motor start to operate sometimes, when I got it clicking I would then find the position between 2nd click and crank when I would crank and BOOM away we go, starts perfectly.

Does that sound like ignition barrel or starter to you?

If so, I'm pretty confident on the starter swap, have done on other cars. Ignition barrel Nd therefore door lock fills me with dread, anyone got step by step guide on ALL process's including how to pair up everything properly (new keys and transponders/CCCU?/IMMOB/ECU????) help.

Cheers
John
 
Sounds like a new battery is required. Cold weather will reveal a weak battery. 12.49v is on the low side and 12.15v is too low. Readings presumably taken from the battery posts, not connections from?

If the battery is not too far gone, you may be able to recover some of the capacity with a CTEK MX5 5.0 (or similar) battery charger, which has a RECOND option. This removes lead sulphate from the battery plates. My wife's Lupo was recently off the road for ECU replacement. The battery has a capacity of 540A; when I took it out of the car it was about 460A but after about four cycles using the RECOND option, it was above 540A.

RAB
 
Last edited by a moderator:
RAB said:
Sounds like a new battery is required. Cold weather will reveal a weak battery. 12.49v is on the low side and 12.15v is too low. Readings presumably taken from the battery posts, not connections from?

RAB
Click to expand...
Battery posts in the boot bud
 
Yes, I know, but if the readings are taken at the battery, it eliminates the effect of bad contacts elsewhere.

RAB
 
RAB said:
Yes, I know, but if the readings are taken at the battery, it eliminates the effect of bad contacts elsewhere.

RAB
Click to expand...

Where would you suggest test battery connections under the bonnet to ensure there aren't any discrepancies?
 
Additionally, if I slapped a battery booster on it tomorrow morning, before first crank, into theory if it's the battery, it would fire right up first attempt?
 
If you want to test the battery only, take the readings from the battery posts. If that is where you took the readings, then your battery needs attention or replacement. If the readings are taken elsewhere at the same time and are lower, you have problems with connections.

Yes, a battery booster should achieve an instant start, assuming that it is fully charged and is in a good state!

If the problem is the battery, the CTEK charger will be the cheaper option.

RAB
 
Will use a battery booster on it tomorrow and hope for the best!

I dont understand how the slight adjustment of the key during the 'crank' position can be linked to the battery though?
 
Johnhenry said:
Alun the tdi must have caught wind that we are looking at FSIs as hes pulled a proper howler on us.

Mrs told me yesterday that starting has been an issue then last few days, symptoms and updates as follows.

- new rebuilt EWQ gearbox and clutch fitted about 2 weeks ago by VAG specialist with good record (I'm confident it's done well/correctly)

- problem seems most prevalent when cold, once hot I've been told it goes away, I'll be confirming today as it seems to be getting worse.

- when turning the key, (normally 2 clicks then crank). On 2 clicks, all dash lights come on, glow plugs on and off normally. On Crank, nothing, dash lights go off, no dimming.

- key wiggles around a lot in the barrel

- this morning, I have removed, sanded, wd40'd and are attached earth strap and cables on the top of the starter motor covered by a plastic cowl. No change in symptoms.

- Battery voltage last night was 12.49v, this morning (very cold outside) 12.15v, alternator charging strongly. When you get it going, cranks strongly, no issue with engine firing up.

This morning I've tried to rule out earth strap but i need guidance on next steps.

- IGNITION BARREL, wiggling key didn't seem to do anything BUT, I tried backing they key off very slightly between 2nd click and cranking, and I could hear the starter motor start to operate sometimes, when I got it clicking I would then find the position between 2nd click and crank when I would crank and BOOM away we go, starts perfectly.

Does that sound like ignition barrel or starter to you?

If so, I'm pretty confident on the starter swap, have done on other cars. Ignition barrel Nd therefore door lock fills me with dread, anyone got step by step guide on ALL process's including how to pair up everything properly (new keys and transponders/CCCU?/IMMOB/ECU????) help.

Cheers
John
Click to expand...
We had this years ago on an A class commonly caused by a large bunch (heavy) of
keys causing wear on the plastic section that the key operates, look at this as an example eBay 372827307466 , not saying this is the part but you may be able to keep the key & immobiliser & just replace the plastic section.

Hth
Keith
 
Hi,

Is the battery original? Or do you know how old it is, often date stamped on battery somewhere.

Still think you should stick to ruling the battery out first and heed Rab' wise advice but if you later go for swapping the ignition barrel...


You need to buy a door lock, ignition barrel and a matched key blade often provided as the top half of a key.


As to your original question on guides, a simple search brings up lots of results, a sample below"

Door Lock

Drivers door lock barrel removal??

Hi all. How easy is it to remove/replace the drivers door lock barrel. Any special tools needed etc Thanks Steve
www.a2oc.net

Ignition Barrel

Removing ignition barrel

Need to remove the ignition barrel on my scrapper so the steering lock wont come on when moved, had a look around but cant really find any tips. Anyone done this? Regards. John.
www.a2oc.net

Edit. Heavy editing of the original post at this point as it just struck me all you have do is swap the new key blade with the original blade in your existing fob and everything should work. Hope I got that right at the second attempt.

If nothing else some general reading to pass a rainy and chilly day, but stick with the battery investigation.

Andy
 
Last edited:
Andrew said:
Hi,

Is the battery original? Or do you know how old it is, often date stamped on battery somewhere.

Still think you should stick to ruling the battery out first and heed Rab' wise advice but if you later go for swapping the ignition barrel...


You need to buy a door lock, ignition barrel and a matched key blade often provided as the top half of a key.


As to your original question on guides, a simple search brings up lots of results, a sample below"

Door Lock

Drivers door lock barrel removal??

Hi all. How easy is it to remove/replace the drivers door lock barrel. Any special tools needed etc Thanks Steve
www.a2oc.net

Ignition Barrel

Removing ignition barrel

Need to remove the ignition barrel on my scrapper so the steering lock wont come on when moved, had a look around but cant really find any tips. Anyone done this? Regards. John.
www.a2oc.net

Edit. Heavy editing of the original post at this point as it just struck me all you have do is swap the new key blade with the original blade in your existing fob and everything should work. Hope I got that right at the second attempt.

If nothing else some general reading to pass a rainy and chilly day, but stick with the battery investigation.

Andy
Click to expand...

See that is what I was thinking! The 'transponder?' in the fob can be retained so the cars imobiliser/ECU still recognises it, all I need to do is swap over the hardware element, ie the key, and the bits that accept the key?
 
Johnhenry said:
See that is what I was thinking! The 'transponder?' in the fob can be retained so the cars imobiliser/ECU still recognises it, all I need to do is swap over the hardware element, ie the key, and the bits that accept the key?
Click to expand...
I think yes, as long as you mean key blade in the last phrase after the ie.

[Sorry to be pedantic but I read many posts where the use of the word key is not clear, such as 'I opened the door with the key', does this mean the open button was pressed or the the key blade was used manually in the door? Often key means the whole thing, other times it means the key blade and it changes the whole interpretation of a post. Probably just me.]

After fitting matching door and ignition barrels if I have this right all you need to do is swap the new key blade with the key blade of your existing fob. I have read, (not actually done it this way), you can do this without any disassemlbly of the key fob. If you hold the key blade halfway through its normal semicircular travel at the base of the blade you will see the key blade retaining pin. Punch it out and the blade detaches, and then reverse the process with the new key blade.

Exhaustively pursue the battery investigation first though.

Andy

[An anecdote on blade swapping at the expense of looking silly. I swapped my blade when I had the top half of my key fob disassembled in order to fit a virgin immobiliser chip which probably made the swap a bit easier. Put it all back together and pressed the button to flip open the blade, nothing happened! Used my fingernail to rotate the blade to its open position, pressed the blade button and it snapped shut! Completely the opposite of how it is supposed to work:oops:.]
 
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