jetboy
Member
Celebrating two gamechanging icons: the BMW i3 and Audi A2
The revolutionary A2 and i3 should have paved the way for more clever, lightweight cars, but didn't
Top Gear: Celebrating two gamechanging icons: the BMW i3 and Audi A2
- Thread starter jetboy
- Start date
It really is not very comfortable ride, but it sure is engaging.
Excellent article though. You must love A2 and i3.
John Reynolds
Member
- Country
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Thanks for the link to the article, it certainly rings true with me. I owned a 1.6FSI from 2002 through to 2021 when I sold it to a fellow forum member and bought an i3S with all the bells and whistles. It was one of the last ones manufactured and I was delighted to have got it before BMW stopped making them. Whenever I look at it or drive it I'm always reminded of the A2, both had advanced engineering and beautiful design wrapped in unconventional, small packages, and both made you feel happy.
andrewparkeruk
Member
My ATL 90, owned from 2009, has recently bitten the dust (crankshaft failure). WOM have bought it from me with a view to resurrect as/when time/parts allow
I had long considered the i3, but was hoping to wait until I have SolarPV, home battery, et cetera before making that switch. I am presently renting an apartment so none of that will happen soon
A change of car has been forced on me. I have choices:
- buy another ’cult’ ICE car eg Škoda Yeti; then sell when I can go EV, hoping cult status will minimise £ loss
- buy a.n.other ICE car; then sell when I can go EV, expecting significant £ loss
- buy an electric right now, charging off combination of 3-pin plug/Octopus Energy Go tariff/public chargers
as I am renting both the apartment and the garage, I can’t see me installing a 7.4KWh charger
@Skipton01 Michael I wonder if will be happy to share your views of which i3 models fall in that “sweet spot”?
Thank you, Andrew
3wheeler
Member
Don't go electric...just yet..
andrewparkeruk
Member
Tbh that’s not much of a reasoned argument
3wheeler
Member
Thats a great article. I have considered an i3, but I think its barking up the wrong tree. Genius though it its. The A2 is more honest.Celebrating two gamechanging icons: the BMW i3 and Audi A2
The revolutionary A2 and i3 should have paved the way for more clever, lightweight cars, but didn'twww.topgear.com
Alan_uk
A2OC Donor
I almost bought an i3 a few weeks ago but got cold feet. It was a 3+ years old i3 with Interior world - lodge and Park assist packages at £25,620. So why the cold feet?
It had only done 840 miles - yes, eight hundred and forty and I was worried about the state of the battery.
The dealer (a main BMW dealer) refused to give me a battery health check and a diagnostic check. I asked about the history and he said they bought it from an auction in November - strange. He also said it was originally bought new from the main dealer in Swindon and serviced there. I rang them and they confirmed the vehicle mileage but the person I spoke to couldn't recall the vehicle.
According to the i3 handbook if the vehicle is stored up to 3 months then (from memory) it should be fully charged and kept plugged in and checked regularly. For greater than 3 months BMW advice should be sought. I was worried that should the battery fail within the 8 year 1000,000 miles warranty then a diagnostic check might suggest these guidelines had not been followed. I emailed BMW but no reply.
Prices of used i3 have dropped and there are lots on the market place. I now see the prices of ID3s are also coming down. The i3 is certainly a good quirky EV to replace the A2. My son in law has one and I enjoy the ride. But the ID3 gives twice the range for little more money. I've driven a demo and found it OK but it looks and feels a boring car and the inside is not as good as an i3. I tend to keep my cars a long time and I bet the i3 will become even more difficult and more expensive to maintain than an A2. On the other hand, I've had my A2 19 years but I'm unlikely to be around in another 19 years. But my neighbour has just stopped driving at 98.
It had only done 840 miles - yes, eight hundred and forty and I was worried about the state of the battery.
The dealer (a main BMW dealer) refused to give me a battery health check and a diagnostic check. I asked about the history and he said they bought it from an auction in November - strange. He also said it was originally bought new from the main dealer in Swindon and serviced there. I rang them and they confirmed the vehicle mileage but the person I spoke to couldn't recall the vehicle.
According to the i3 handbook if the vehicle is stored up to 3 months then (from memory) it should be fully charged and kept plugged in and checked regularly. For greater than 3 months BMW advice should be sought. I was worried that should the battery fail within the 8 year 1000,000 miles warranty then a diagnostic check might suggest these guidelines had not been followed. I emailed BMW but no reply.
Prices of used i3 have dropped and there are lots on the market place. I now see the prices of ID3s are also coming down. The i3 is certainly a good quirky EV to replace the A2. My son in law has one and I enjoy the ride. But the ID3 gives twice the range for little more money. I've driven a demo and found it OK but it looks and feels a boring car and the inside is not as good as an i3. I tend to keep my cars a long time and I bet the i3 will become even more difficult and more expensive to maintain than an A2. On the other hand, I've had my A2 19 years but I'm unlikely to be around in another 19 years. But my neighbour has just stopped driving at 98.
andrewparkeruk
Member
Another A2 is not an option for me. I have loved the one I had for 13 years
andrewparkeruk
Member
Alan_uk
A2OC Donor
I did write a reply but have deleted it. I think it is better an i3 owner replies.
3wheeler
Member
I'll take a try, but this is only a conversation from my keyboard at this time! The A2 has an Aluminium shell which is very difficult to repair in an accident. Probably its weakest point. The i3 has a Carbonfibre shell that is pretty much impossible to repair after an accident. I can expand on that if required. Thats a similarity. The A2 uses a lot of VW group commonality which is easier to source but perhaps harder to bolt and unbolt due to the packaging. The i3 uses a lot of unique parts. The tyres being one. The REx engine is a standard engine, but has weaknesses. What the A2 doesn't have is a complex electronics system, that if a single component fails could render the i3 uneconomical to repair later down the line. I'm not even going into the battery packs 'half life'. Think around the difficulty on sourcing some A2 electronic items now, and its not a patch on the complexity of the i3 and then when they reach the same age. Rich Rebuilds on You Tube delves into Teslas electronic integration and its economic and independent repairs, and is worth a watch. I have really wanted an i3. I love the theory behind it. I borrowed one from BMW for the afternoon. I wanted a 66 plate one, and the last of the REx models to try and escape the shortfalls of the charging network. I also investigated one as a company leased car. In the end, I have, for myself, decided an end of life A2 is a more environmentally sound proposition, and ecomnomically too, taking into account recomissioning costs. Lovely though the i3 appears to be.
andrewparkeruk
Member
Skipton01
Admin Team
Red Nose Day at BBC towers have seen me otherwise occupied recently, so apols for not replying sooner.
Andrew, the perfect i3 for you would undoubtedly be the 94ah REx model - all the benefits of electric, but with the reassurance of an on-board generator should the journey you're on not fall into the range you have.
Having had my i3 now for around 6 weeks, I love it - completely and utterly love it. I bought it thinking it was a Rex, but it wasn't! It's just a 94ah BEV, with a range of around 120 miles and a charge time at rapids of around 30 mins.
The journey back from London (Park Lane BMW) was done with 2 stops - Banbury Osprey chargers, then a quick safety top up at Sandbach services. No queueing for chargers, no range anxiety either and when stuck in traffic around Brum, range was never an issue.
Battery life isn't an issue - mine is a 17 plate example (just sneaks in before 1st April 2017, so avoids the 'standard rate' of car tax coming in 2025) and degradation as reported from the hidden menu states that it's lost around 3% capacity from new.
I get the concerns about electronic components failing and repairs to chassis following an accident etc, but this applies more or less to every car ever made. I'd trust BMW to hold components for longer than Audi though, who despite the Audi Tradition webshop, really don't care about support of older models.
If you want an i3, go for it - I'd suggest watching as many Youtube videos as you can from Wisely Automotive to get a feel for maintenance issues, ownership and such.
My i3 is a fully loaded example - every single option available on the 2017 model year was ticked, even the sunroof, which is a rare option. It also has LED headlights which are almost as good as the matrix lights on my Model 3, and are also a rare option on pre-facelift models.
Handling is superb - turning circle is tighter than the A2 and the ride is firm but more compliant than the A2, even on my factory fitted 20" wheels. How the designers managed this when the overall weight is about the same as a TDi A2 is a marvel, when the A2 is so crashy in comparison.
Infotainment is almost up to modern standards, factory fit navigation, telephone and such, but obviously no cd or tape options. Interior space is fantastic - spacious up front and perfectly adequate in the back too (I can sit behind my front driving position and I'm 185cm tall) - our little boy loves it as he can climb into his seat so much easier with the coach doors and he has a higher up position than in the Tesla.
Overall, if you can make charging work for you, then there's very little reason not to go for an i3 - it's what the A2 could have been if Audi had continued development and I suspect the concept BEV A2 that was shown off around 2010 would have been very similar to this. Don't forget that there's a growing number of Tesla charge stations opening up to all manufacturers (Trafford Centre being one of the largest), but as an EV owner for a few years now, you learn to adapt your driving habits to make journeys work out with what you have available. Biggest range killers are motorway trips at a constant high speed, but with the growing network available, this isn't a barrier to long-distance trips.
Andrew, the perfect i3 for you would undoubtedly be the 94ah REx model - all the benefits of electric, but with the reassurance of an on-board generator should the journey you're on not fall into the range you have.
Having had my i3 now for around 6 weeks, I love it - completely and utterly love it. I bought it thinking it was a Rex, but it wasn't! It's just a 94ah BEV, with a range of around 120 miles and a charge time at rapids of around 30 mins.
The journey back from London (Park Lane BMW) was done with 2 stops - Banbury Osprey chargers, then a quick safety top up at Sandbach services. No queueing for chargers, no range anxiety either and when stuck in traffic around Brum, range was never an issue.
Battery life isn't an issue - mine is a 17 plate example (just sneaks in before 1st April 2017, so avoids the 'standard rate' of car tax coming in 2025) and degradation as reported from the hidden menu states that it's lost around 3% capacity from new.
I get the concerns about electronic components failing and repairs to chassis following an accident etc, but this applies more or less to every car ever made. I'd trust BMW to hold components for longer than Audi though, who despite the Audi Tradition webshop, really don't care about support of older models.
If you want an i3, go for it - I'd suggest watching as many Youtube videos as you can from Wisely Automotive to get a feel for maintenance issues, ownership and such.
My i3 is a fully loaded example - every single option available on the 2017 model year was ticked, even the sunroof, which is a rare option. It also has LED headlights which are almost as good as the matrix lights on my Model 3, and are also a rare option on pre-facelift models.
Handling is superb - turning circle is tighter than the A2 and the ride is firm but more compliant than the A2, even on my factory fitted 20" wheels. How the designers managed this when the overall weight is about the same as a TDi A2 is a marvel, when the A2 is so crashy in comparison.
Infotainment is almost up to modern standards, factory fit navigation, telephone and such, but obviously no cd or tape options. Interior space is fantastic - spacious up front and perfectly adequate in the back too (I can sit behind my front driving position and I'm 185cm tall) - our little boy loves it as he can climb into his seat so much easier with the coach doors and he has a higher up position than in the Tesla.
Overall, if you can make charging work for you, then there's very little reason not to go for an i3 - it's what the A2 could have been if Audi had continued development and I suspect the concept BEV A2 that was shown off around 2010 would have been very similar to this. Don't forget that there's a growing number of Tesla charge stations opening up to all manufacturers (Trafford Centre being one of the largest), but as an EV owner for a few years now, you learn to adapt your driving habits to make journeys work out with what you have available. Biggest range killers are motorway trips at a constant high speed, but with the growing network available, this isn't a barrier to long-distance trips.