Tyre? rumble saga

D

digiblue

Member
About 3 months and 4000 miles ago I bought a pair of Continental Premium Contact 185/50 R16 H for a TDI 90 SE. They were bought online at blackcircles and fitted to the front wheels by a helpful and friendly local fitter. I have a feeling the old tyres were contis, but with a higher speed rating.

After they were fitted I got strong vibrations through the steering wheel and the steering felt overly light at motorway speed. Similar to when I've had badly balanced wheels, except that the vibrations didn't appear consistently at a certain speed. It was as if the tyres had to warm up before it occurred.

I went back to the fitter and explained the vibration problem to them. They checked the wheel balance on all four wheels, which was fine, so they swapped the front and rear tyres, which cured the vibration problems.

I then started to notice a rumbling sound when driving - not a continuous tone, more of an oscillation sound which varies with the speed of the car. I've jacked the car up and all wheels spin freely with no significant brake drag and no roughness, and there is no play in the bearings. When spinning the wheels I've looked at their profile and not noticed any unevenness.

I haven't been back to the tyre fitter because I bought the tyres online and the fitter said there was not much more they could do, and I hoped the rumbling would go away as the tyres bedded in.

Has anyone else experienced anything similar? The evidence seems to point to faulty tyres. Is this likely? Do you reckon it's worth contacting blackcircles after so long?

Thanks for your help
 
The A2 is incredibly sensitive to tyre type and condition.

I have had banging, knocking and all manner of noises which were due to partly worn Eagle F1 tyres. I've had good performance from Avon ZZ3s, Michelin Pilot Sports and am about to try Nexen N3000s.

Contis were never standard fitment for the A2, possibly because of this 'issue' with strange noises.

The other possibility is that the laminations of the tyre are actually separating at speed, giving rise to the noise you can hear. Checking this is pretty much impossible on your own, so maybe a note to the retailer would be best.

Cheers,

Mike
 
One other issue might be the tread alignment. I had a problem sometime ago where the tyre depot diagnosed that the tread on the tyre wasn't running round true (hope that makes sense). It was visible, albeit only slightly, by jacking the car up and spinning the wheel (looks like a buckled wheel). They said sometimes they get tyres like this and some cars are more sensitive to it than others, which makes sense. I got them replaced FOC as they were going to return them to the manufacturer.

Cheers

Jonathan
 
So what were OE fit tyres? Mine is a sport with 17" wheels and has almost new Pirellis' on. There is v.slight vibration at speed (80+:rolleyes:) and they seem noisy but that is in comparison with my A6.
 
Dunlop SP9000, Michelin Pilot Sport, Pirelli P6000 (only a few), were all OE fit tyres.

Interestingly, Continental EcoDrive were a standard fit on A6s.

Yokohama A539, Pirelli P Zero, Goodyear Eagle F1, Toyo Proxes T1s/R have all been fitted with good results, as have cheaper makes such as Wanli and Nankang.

Cheers,

Mike
 
Thanks Mike, if I was going out buying tyres I would be looking at Toyos' if finances allowed! Had superb experience with them on my Astra T8's.
 
Thanks for all your replies.

the 'oscillating rumble' can be heard at low speeds - less than 10mph. I wonder if laminations can separate at this kind of speed. My poor maths estimates this to be about 100RPM at the wheels.

The contis got goo reviews for noise, but then again the A2 is not the average car.

I tried to look at tread alignment and didn't notice much variation in the grooves when spinning the wheel, but I'll check again to be sure.

I think the OE tyre on my A2 were the Michelins. I tried to get Toyos, but no one had them in stock.

I am starting to get a bit concerned about the H speed rating, Does anyone know what Audi min spec is for a TDI 90 SE? I think I'll give them a call.
 
Non-spec tyres & insurance

I'm thinking that if the tyres are of too low a speed rating i'll replace them because i don't want an excuse for the insurance company to use if there's an accident.

I also wonder what an insurance company would say if tyres of a bigger outside diameter than spec were fitted as many here seem to do because of better availability. I'd bet they wouldn't like it, and, if the car was still under warranty and there was a problem with brakes, wheels, suspension etc it could be an excuse to invalidate the claim. Has anyone got experience with this?
 
We have a 1.6 FSI on 16" 's - recently had to replace 1 due to bad puncture (not repairable) took the decision to replace 2 and have 2 new put on front. Had Michelin pilots at new, these were completely unavailable, Toyos would take a week, ended up buying Pirelli P6000's ( PIRELLI PR P6000 POWER 81V)
not cheap - £174 fitted / balanced with front wheel alignment etc and done the same day !
very happy with performance / noise etc etc
 
Last autumn I have changed my OEM Goodyear NCT5 tyres to Conti PremiumContact2 195/55R15V. I think it was a really good decision, both comfort and handling have been improved significantly at motorway speed as well. Is it possible that PC2's newest pattern and compound fits better to the A2?

Norbert
 
i've been in touch with blackcircles and they said i could arrange for tyre(s) that i thought were defective to be returned to the manufacturer, and if they are found to be faulty I will be issued with a credit based on the tyre wear.

looking in the owner's manual last night, i couldn't find any speed rating specs except for winter tyres, where H were the fastest tyres listed. Apparently if the car uses winter tyres that are not capable of its max speed, the car needs some kind of label fitting stating this. I can't remember exact wording. It also said that tyre specifications must comply with those listed on the car registration document. There are no tyre specs on my registration document though.
 
allways make sure you put new tyres on the back the garage should have known this it gives you better traction and the should do it by law!!! as for the noise i had the same problem a while ago and found out that i had a small stone stuck on the brake pad i hoped this help...
 
beyonder52 said:
allways make sure you put new tyres on the back the garage should have known this it gives you better traction and the should do it by law!!!
Click to expand...

For rear wheel drive vehicles maybe, but NOT on the A2. If there is a large difference in tread depths between the front and rear axels, the tyres with deepest tread should ALWAYS be fitted to the front axel.

Cheers,

Mike
 
beyonder52

it does not matter if it rear or front, rear wheel drive cars skid out more on the rear ,ok you might get more control on rear wheel drive but u still need more grip!!!garages have to do this by law
 
beyonder52 said:
it does not matter if it rear or front, rear wheel drive cars skid out more on the rear ,ok you might get more control on rear wheel drive but u still need more grip!!!garages have to do this by law
Click to expand...

Sorry, that is incorrect.

On the A2, you should always have tyres with the most tread on the front axel. The following is an extract from the Audi workshop manual:

  • If there are large differences in the tread depth of the tyres on the front and rear axles, the tyres with the deeper tread should always be mounted on the front axle.

The same advice goes for any front wheel drive car too and as a generalisation, you should have the newer tyres on the driven wheels.

Cheers,

Mike
 
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I recall one of the car programmes on TV running a test to compare vehicle dynamics with max tread on front and rear tyres - and surprisingly the rears won.
Even Michelin recommend it - see link but I still put the newer tyres on the front. For me, it must reduce the risk of aquaplaning and getting punctures - both very scary when it happens on the front tyres. http://www.michelin.co.uk/uk/auto/auto_cons_bib_pqr_neuf.jsp

Cheers Spike
 
The link is an interesting read, but completely illogical.

It says that braking will be improved, but that is impossible - under braking (emergency braking in particular), the vast majority of the cars' weight is thrown forward onto the front wheels and they do 90% of the work in stopping the vehicle.

They talk of handling and traction, but on the A2 (as in all front wheel drive cars) the rear wheels just follow in the path of the fronts. Sure, if you are getting towards the legal limit, they'll tend to break away earlier, but if you replace your tyres at about 3mm, which is recommended by all parties, not just manufacturers, then there will be practically no difference.

There will always be a bed-in period for new tyres, when they will be very much less grippy than they should be, but after 50-100 miles, they'll be at their optimum. The only reason offered is to promote understeer in very wet situations, but as the rear wheels follow close behind the fronts, which have already cleared a path, then this is going to be an ultra-rare scenario. Sure, if you are going round a bend, the track of the rears is different to the fronts, but if you are going round a bend fast enough to aquaplane, you should be taking more care in the first place!

Unless there is a reasoned argument and an explanation as to why you should do different, I would always recommend putting newer tyres on the front, as per Audi advice. As far as I can tell, the ordinary benefits (better braking, better real-world driving performance and wet weather performance) outweigh the single drawback of a rear wheel skid or oversteer, if you push things too hard.

Cheers,

Mike
 
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an update on the tyre noise. the worn set of tyres that had been moved to the front due to steering vibration were almost down to limit markers, so I bought a new pair of tyres. This time I couldn't get hold of continentals, so went for toyo proxes t1-r, which my local fitter did for £77 a tyre all inclusive. (it seems that 185 50 R16 are in short supply, blackcircles only had toyos or khumos).

To my amazement, on leaving the fitters, the car felt quite different. Much smoother, much quieter, and no rumble! So it was the oe michelin pilot premacy tyres which were to blame. Moving them to the front must have made the rumble noticeable. I can honestly say with the new Toyos on the front it feels like a different car, I actually like the A2 again!

BTW The recommendation is for the 'best' tyres to go onto the rear of a car: http://www.michelin.co.uk/uk/auto/auto_cons_bib_pqr_neuf.jsp
Apparently it is also harder to control a car with a rear vs a front blowout, so the best tyres should be at the back.
 
is there a correct answer ?

I found this debate interesting, when I bought 2 new tyres recently the garage advised to move the front to rear and put the 2 new on the front "for safety reasons" I asked "how much to do this" and was advised "because it is a safety recommendation it is free of charge" !
On my 4x4 when the 2 fronts were worn I was advised (by a different fitter franchise) that for safety reasons I had to replace all 4 :eek:

Did a quick search across the net and just to be fair found an arguement to balance the front / rear debate where Mercedes :( and Continental appear to say it does not matter

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post?t=6540

could not find the detail on the continental website myself but did find a pic of an A2 Sport :D

http://www.conti-online.co.uk/gener...ntal/automobile/themes/car_tyres/tyre_en.html

Kwik Fit no longer recommend rotating tyres and go for the new to rear arguement

http://www.kwik-fit.com/tyre-rotation.asp

Which, also go for the rear

http://www.which.co.uk/reports_and_...Tyres/Tyres_essential_product_574_70980_7.jsp

and finally ... I have had enough now ;)

http://www.tyresafe.org/data/files/TyreSafe MOTORCAR.pdf .... lot of info some quite interesting but NO recommendations

and finally ... finally a recommendation from tyre safe

http://www.tyresafe.org/news-and-events/detail/motorists-get-their-tyres--back-to-front--/
 
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