Valuation

Malcyb

Malcyb

Member
Hi all,
One more question. I’m really struggling to get my head round the pricing of A2s, it seems to be nothing like the slightly more predictable laws of newer second hand cars that I’m used to where it’s a fairly simple product of spec, mileage and who’s selling it. Actual sale prices seem to vary wildly for little obvious reason and bear little relation to the usual price guides (Parkers etc). Does anybody have any guidelines that might help me decide whether asking prices are reasonable or not? I haven‘t finalised my spec but most likely I’ll be looking for a TDI (ideally 90 but would consider 75) with OSS And Climate. Probably an SE or maybe Colour Storm with as much kit on it as possible though I’m appreciating now that pretty much anything can be retro fitted. I’m willing to pay a premium for good condition and history and ideally relatively low mileage. Don’t take this as a “wanted” ad because I’m not in a position to buy yet, I’m just trying to learn the ropes so that I’m properly clued up by the time I can buy.
Thanks
 
Malcyb said:
Hi all,
One more question. I’m really struggling to get my head round the pricing of A2s, it seems to be nothing like the slightly more predictable laws of newer second hand cars that I’m used to where it’s a fairly simple product of spec, mileage and who’s selling it. Actual sale prices seem to vary wildly for little obvious reason and bear little relation to the usual price guides (Parkers etc). Does anybody have any guidelines that might help me decide whether asking prices are reasonable or not? I haven‘t finalised my spec but most likely I’ll be looking for a TDI (ideally 90 but would consider 75) with OSS And Climate. Probably an SE or maybe Colour Storm with as much kit on it as possible though I’m appreciating now that pretty much anything can be retro fitted. I’m willing to pay a premium for good condition and history and ideally relatively low mileage. Don’t take this as a “wanted” ad because I’m not in a position to buy yet, I’m just trying to learn the ropes so that I’m properly clued up by the time I can buy.
Thanks
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I think your find people will be reluctant to give you prices as your requests vary from one extreme to the other .. your best bet is to look what is for sale now on all sites inc auto trader gumtree exchange and Mart and on here ..and formulate your own price guide take a mean average .. it’s already been stated depending on the spec you want the milage service history condition etc ...it’s like your asking how long is a piece of string ..? the ones I have I paid top money for because I wanted ultra low milage 30k and as mint as I could get but your looking at up to £5k or more in some cases ..but there are cars from £2k upwards ..some with high miles but have had lots of money spent and well looked after so you can see not easy to put a blank value...
 
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Yes, prices are all over the place, but that's half the fun of it!, but the good consequence is there are real bargains out there from the non informed and 'just a car' sellers. I have seen ads for cars with OSS and it's not been mentioned!, suspect BSS and the seller decided not to say anything as they decided it sounded bad if mentioned.

I only follow FSI prices and I am in no position to comment on diesel but patience is the key and with your wish list be prepared for a long wait for one to come along.

Good luck.

Andy
 
Agree with the comments above, I personally share @greywolfhound views in respect of paying to get that ultra low mileage mint condition with the spec that you want.

Yes things can be retrofitted but equally you may have to be pragmatic as your cheapish A2 could become very expensive if you spend a lot on it which you’ll probably not recoup come sale time. It therefore would be better to spend more at the outset (with as many options on your wish list) and get the best you can to avoid the cost thereafter.
 
Except in emissions-sensitive areas, average Tdi 75s unless on stellar or very low mileage now seem to be stabilising in the 1000-2000 bracket but without any particular logic as stated above. Probably the most variable are the 1.6 FSis which tend to be on lower mileages than the Tdis anyway - a significant number of which you see on Autotrader or Ebay at banger prices mostly because of mystery misfires or persistent engine lights - but equally may appear around or above 2k (with potentially exactly the same problems) because a valet and tidy up and some salesman patter with good photos can make them look very smart indeed especially with the lower overall use levels. As you will have seen here recently there finally appears to be a significant development for the intake manifold flap issue in the form of an ECU remap to remove the FSi functionality, which in turn eliminates the persistent warning light - providing everything else has been given a good service, the right fuel being used etc. As stated above this may in turn result in some FSis that would have otherwise been lost now being viable and possibly bargains - caveat emptor being the obvious note. Unless a car has been given a thorough going over by someone here or a specialist, almost every car out there will need various bits and pieces doing that again may be completely unrelated to the initial purchase price, simply because of age and wear and tear, so having a maintenance fund and plan is something worth bearing in mind.
 
I'm relatively new to A2s, having only bought one a couple of months ago, but would say that they are just starting to become collectable. Nice cars that have been cherished are starting to fetch good money; the rest have got to the stage where condition is more important than mileage. At the end of the day a reasonable price is that what you think is fair for a particular car.

Good luck with your search - your various questions have brought out lots of useful knowledge!
 
Lots of useful thoughts - thanks. I will just have to hone my judgement with experience. I think the talk of it as a “future classic” is relevant to pricing, and causes some (only some) sellers to inflate the price somewhat. Not that I disagree, I’ve no doubt it will become highly collectible; this isn’t hugely relevant to me, I’m just attracted by their individuality and engineering-led design ethos. My first ever car back in the mid 80s was a Citroen Dyane and in an odd kind of way I see something of it in the A2. Or is it just me!?
 
I wouldn't be too worried about waiting for a low mileage example - there are plenty around at over 200,000 miles. A good service history is surely more important, regular oil changes, cam belt replacement, etc.
 
trevorswaine said:
I wouldn't be too worried about waiting for a low mileage example - there are plenty around at over 200,000 miles. A good service history is surely more important, regular oil changes, cam belt replacement, etc.
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Objectively, I’m sure you are right. However this will be my first ever foray into purchasing an older car (my only one with so much as 30k on the clock was a main dealer Merc) and as I said in my intro, I’m not mechanically skilled. So having as many factors on my side on this occasion feels psychologically important. For certain, history and condition are most important, but I’d feel very nervous getting one with mileage into 6 figures.
 
Malcyb said:
For certain, history and condition are most important, but I’d feel very nervous getting one with mileage into 6 figures.
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I can understand your nervousness regarding high mileages, but if maintained well these cars really do take high mileages. The one I bought has 150k on it, but drives like a 30k car (for comparison our other car is 4 years old with 35k and has more interior creaks and the seat fabrics are in a worse state). Mine was maintained by an Audi dealer until 120k and then a VW/Audi specialist and came with all the reciepts/paperwork for its service work. The fact it had 2 meticulous owners has been much more important than how many miles they put on the car.
 
Malcyb said:
Objectively, I’m sure you are right. However this will be my first ever foray into purchasing an older car (my only one with so much as 30k on the clock was a main dealer Merc) and as I said in my intro, I’m not mechanically skilled. So having as many factors on my side on this occasion feels psychologically important. For certain, history and condition are most important, but I’d feel very nervous getting one with mileage into 6 figures.
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I completely understand where you're coming from, my first venture into A2 ownership was one with 130k, I felt nervous, never having got close to 6 figures in any previous car. I went on the sellers word on condition and ended up with an okay car, drove pretty good but needed fettling. History was patchy.

That car was replaced with a 'newer' 05 plate Special Edition Dolphin grey with 170k. Massive file of service history, a genuine car enthusiast seller and clearly very well looked after, no expense spared car. Now on 213k and running like clockwork and way better than the previous 'low mileage' example ?

Just find an honest good one that's been properly maintained, good luck!
 
Robin_Cox said:
As you will have seen here recently there finally appears to be a significant development for the intake manifold flap issue in the form of an ECU remap to remove the FSi functionality, which in turn eliminates the persistent warning light - providing everything else has been given a good service, the right fuel being used etc. As stated above this may in turn result in some FSis that would have otherwise been lost now being viable and possibly bargains - caveat emptor being the obvious note.
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This was news to me, however I’ve been digesting the FSi remap thread with great interest just now - a fantastic piece of work @A2Steve. This making me wonder whether the FSi might be a viable purchase for me after all. My question is, though this is drifting a bit from the original subject and might be subject of a thread elsewhere, what should I be looking out for on a prospective FSi purchase, if I want to avoid expensive problems, even if I got the remap done soon after? Is it just the warning light, or more to it than that? In the specific case of the FSi, would I be less liable to have problems if I sought a relatively low mileage one?
 
I wrote a bit of a list for some FSI specific checks, see link below.

Buying Dilemma - 1.6 FSI vs TDI 75

Hi Guys. Its probably been covered 100s of times but im in a real dilemma of which model is the better but for me.Car will be used mostly for short 10 mile drives.Which model will cope best with that kind of journey?Does the cheaper purchase price on the FSI out way the "bulletproof" TDI? FSI...
www.a2oc.net

I don’t believe there is anything to fear with an FSI, the key is to avoid the rubbish ones, the same however can be said of any car. If you find a good one as I and numerous others have, it has a completely different personality to the TDI’s and it’s a smooth and refined engine not to mention old school hot hatch fast. I was going to buy a TDI first but after driving a good FSI, i knew that was the one for me.

The added benefit of @A2Steve work mean that even the older ones will have a new lease of life.
 
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Jeetesh said:
I wrote a bit of a list for some FSI specific checks, see link below.

Buying Dilemma - 1.6 FSI vs TDI 75

Hi Guys. Its probably been covered 100s of times but im in a real dilemma of which model is the better but for me.Car will be used mostly for short 10 mile drives.Which model will cope best with that kind of journey?Does the cheaper purchase price on the FSI out way the "bulletproof" TDI? FSI...
www.a2oc.net

I don’t believe there is anything to fear with an FSI, the key is to avoid the rubbish ones, the same however can be said of any car. If you find a good one as and numerous others have, it has a completely different personality to the TDI’s and it’s a smooth and refined engine not to mention old school hot hatch fast. I was going to buy a TDI first but after driving a good FSI, i knew that was the one for me.

The added benefit of @A2Steve work mean that even the older ones will have a new lease of life.
Click to expand...

Thanks that’s really useful. This gives me a bit of a dilemma. I would miss the torque of the diesel, but I’m not so sure I’d miss the racket it makes. One more question if I may, what is the top gear on the FSi? Until the more recent introduction of small turbos, most smaller petrol engines had a pretty short top gear which made them a bit frantic on the motorway. I won’t do a lot of long trips in the A2 (we’ve got our van for that) but it’s still a factor.
 
Malcyb said:
Thanks that’s really useful. This gives me a bit of a dilemma. I would miss the torque of the diesel, but I’m not so sure I’d miss the racket it makes. One more question if I may, what is the top gear on the FSi? Until the more recent introduction of small turbos, most smaller petrol engines had a pretty short top gear which made them a bit frantic on the motorway. I won’t do a lot of long trips in the A2 (we’ve got our van for that) but it’s still a factor.
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Oi, a bit harsh on the diesels saying "they make a racket", agreed they don't purr but I don't think they are that bad!
 
in9999 said:
Oi, a bit harsh on the diesels saying "they make a racket", agreed they don't purr but I don't think they are that bad!
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Sorry ?... don’t get me wrong, I’ve always been quite partial to diesels (wouldn’t be looking at A2s with such enthusiasm otherwise) but it would be true to say that they‘ve become a fair bit more refined over the past 15 years, wouldn’t it?
 
Malcyb said:
Sorry ?... don’t get me wrong, I’ve always been quite partial to diesels (wouldn’t be looking at A2s with such enthusiasm otherwise) but it would be true to say that they‘ve become a fair bit more refined over the past 15 years, wouldn’t it?
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There is something reassuring about the reliable throb of a good diesel engine! ;)
 
Malcyb said:
Objectively, I’m sure you are right. However this will be my first ever foray into purchasing an older car (my only one with so much as 30k on the clock was a main dealer Merc) and as I said in my intro, I’m not mechanically skilled. So having as many factors on my side on this occasion feels psychologically important. For certain, history and condition are most important, but I’d feel very nervous getting one with mileage into 6 figures.
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I can assure you that I'm not mechanically minded either, but I'm not worried about the mileage on mine - now on 255,000 miles.
 
I would say mine started to sound a little more harsh up to the 200k mark. I knew I am in it for the long haul so to speak so invested
in an early cambelt change and the oil chain replacement. There is definitely now a more characteristic three pot burble and noticeably quicker too ?
 
An A2 is very, very unlikely to be an investment, in financial terms (I define an investment as putting money away long term, and getting a return of double the inflation rate).
Dry, storage is going to cost you around 10% of a good car's value (I paid £4000 for my low mileage FSI Sport)) to begin with, think it'll be worth £10,000 adjusted for inflation in ten years time? Dream on!
I think my A2 is a great little car, but it's not there just to look at (good as it is) but to drive.
Mac.
 
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