Are all AMF engines the same?

Little Dog

Little Dog

A2OC Donor
European-Union
I ask because I’m going to need one and A2 AMFs are quite rare.
My first question relates to the timing belt tensioner. I have already passed on a suitable engine because it has a hydraulic damper / tensioner. My engine has a friction damper and have already bought a timing belt kit. Are early engines hydraulic and later friction.
My engine:

CE17C27B-575C-493E-8E2C-D14C7AC2A2F7.jpeg


Finding one is not going to be easy but VW, Seat and Skoda engines are out there in abundance. However they are different, this is one on eBay:

75D05211-B21F-4CB7-A2BC-B2FE3EB1A209.jpeg


Three fuel pipes, different dipstick, different oil filler, different manifolds and probably more too.
If I get one of these engines can I strip it back to block and head and build an A2 AMF using parts taken from my engine?
Thank you
 
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Would have thought that if you could get a genuine A2 AMF regardless the type of tensioner that would be the best option. If you have the wrong belt I am sure someone would purchase it from you.

In theory at least then if the block is stamped AMF then yes it can be used with several custom parts needing swapped over from an A2. You would have to make sure things like compression ratio and flywheel is suitable.

Certainly make sure all A2 sensors and thermostat is used.
 
Very good question, they are looking like theyre 80% the same, I often see the EGR and air inlets pipes are differently routed. I bet the engine blocks are the same and you could strip all the supply off and cam vcover adn fit your stuff. HUge gamble but I expect someones done it! Good luck.
 
From the tensioner part of the question, 7zap suggests that there are three distinct eras of AMF tensioner / belt kit combination :
April 2000-October 2001 ; VIN numbers <= 8Z2-019000 - 022813 : 045109243C (common to AMF and ANY)

November 2001 - December 2001 ; VIN numbers 022813-024000 : 038109243M (AMF, VIN 22814 - 24000)
December 2001 - August 2005 ; VIN numbers >8Z2-024001 : 045109243F (common to AMF, BHC and ATL)

Cylinder block with pistons diagram -

Polo AMF uses same main part 045103101A / 045103101C as A2 AMF and BHC engines respectively with a 2005 changeover (Polo 9N facelift?) to the latter part.

 
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My understanding is that all AMF engines are the same with the exception of the oil level sensor. Not all cars with the AMF engine have the provision for the oil level sensor.
I’ve seen some AMF A2s with a replacement engine from another VAG vehicle, and the oil level warning light is either on, or there’s an oil level sensor dipped in a Heinz tin full of oil under the bonnet.
I believe it’s the sump that’s different. Swap the sump over from an A2 AMF engine, and you should be good to go.

It is also my understanding that it’s possible to update the tensioner system. There’s a thread on A2OC about all the various additional parts that are required to migrate the engine from a hydraulic tensioner to the friction type.

Timing belt tensioner conversion hydraulic to mechanical 1.4 TDI

I have an 1.4 tdi AMF engine from 2001 with hydraulic tensioner. During a head gasket job I noticed that the block has an extra hole on the side where the idler should be when using a mechanical tensioner. I got a plate for the mechanical tensioner so I installed it to see if the idler hole...
www.a2oc.net www.a2oc.net

Cheers,

Tom
 
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timmus said:
It is also my understanding that it’s possible to update the tensioner system. There’s a thread on A2OC about all the various additional parts that are required to migrate the engine from a hydraulic tensioner to the friction type.
Click to expand...

AMF with hydraulic tensioner parts question

I bought a cheap early 2001 AMF engine with hydraulic tensioner to replace my seized 2003 AMF with friction tensioner, and would like to change the belts and oil chain while it's out of the car. Obviously (albeit not to me when I bought it) this engine has enough differences to be a major...
www.a2oc.net
 
Lets summarise the points raised:
Good call from @ @Robin_Cox checking 7Zap. Block and head part numbers are the same.
I'll check the pistons too and if they are the same I'll assume the compression ratios are the same
Dipstick tube fits into the sump. If sump part numbers are different I swap the sump over.
Oil level sensor has been an issue in other A2s. I've just now checked and it appear to fit through the front seal housing? Again Ill check on 7Zap for different part numbers. If different swap housing and fit new seal.
Exhaust and inlet manifolds swap
Possible different cam cover oil filler. Swap on my A2 cover.
Hydraulic damping can be converted to friction if I'm stuck. This is something I want to try and avoid.

A further question, could probably check this on 7Zap but if somebody knows:
The service flap oil filler appears to connect to the oil filter housing? If that is the case the housing will probably need swapping too.

Thank you
 
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Regarding the oil level sensor - if it is the "from above" type it 100% goes through the front oil seal housing and it is secured with one bolt. (sensor type 045 907 660D.)
 
Example of amf for sale on Facebook
£200 120k miles, nothing to do with me, just thought give you an idea

www.facebook.com

3PD vs The World | Facebook

This is a group for people intrested in the VW group 1.4tdi! this is the 3 cylinder PD engine. in this group we aim to share information on repairs and tuning of this engine.
www.facebook.com www.facebook.com
 
CrispyEdd said:
Example of amf for sale on Facebook
£200 120k miles, nothing to do with me, just thought give you an idea

www.facebook.com

3PD vs The World | Facebook

This is a group for people intrested in the VW group 1.4tdi! this is the 3 cylinder PD engine. in this group we aim to share information on repairs and tuning of this engine.
www.facebook.com www.facebook.com
Click to expand...
Thank you. £200 appears to be the going rate and getting one with less than 100k miles is a challenge.
 
philward said:
Thank you. £200 appears to be the going rate and getting one with less than 100k miles is a challenge.
Click to expand...
Its always going to be a gamble as a really good engine is likely to be still in a car isnt it, and all crashed car engine sellors wont necesaarily have any history to go by! But £200 isnt a huge gamble realtively speaking when two tyres cost this. All realtive though of course!
 
philward said:
I ask because I’m going to need one and A2 AMFs are quite rare.
My first question relates to the timing belt tensioner. I have already passed on a suitable engine because it has a hydraulic damper / tensioner. My engine has a friction damper and have already bought a timing belt kit. Are early engines hydraulic and later friction.
My engine:

View attachment 104104

Finding one is not going to be easy but VW, Seat and Skoda engines are out there in abundance. However they are different, this is one on eBay:

View attachment 104105

Three fuel pipes, different dipstick, different oil filler, different manifolds and probably more too.
If I get one of these engines can I strip it back to block and head and build an A2 AMF using parts taken from my engine?
Thank you
Click to expand...
That third pipe is not a fuel pipe, it’s the same on Fabia 1.9 as their expansion tank is on the opposite side
 
8 months on and I'm still on the look out for a good AMF. I'm hoping ULEZ will but a few on the market in the coming months. I have though been turning down good, well priced AMF engines with a hydraulic damper. I thought they could not be converted to friction damping without a new stud hole being drilled and tapped in the block. I based my decision on this post that suggests the conversion cannot be done:

www.uk-mkivs.net

1.9 PD TDI; Hydraulic damper tensioner conversion to...

www.uk-mkivs.net www.uk-mkivs.net

However I find, closer to home, that this conversion has been done and that the friction idler pulley stud hole is pre-drilled in a hydraulic damped block:

Timing belt tensioner conversion hydraulic to mechanical 1.4 TDI

I have an 1.4 tdi AMF engine from 2001 with hydraulic tensioner. During a head gasket job I noticed that the block has an extra hole on the side where the idler should be when using a mechanical tensioner. I got a plate for the mechanical tensioner so I installed it to see if the idler hole...
www.a2oc.net www.a2oc.net

When I look at 7Zap, that has now started charging for part numbers, that there are two blocks, I have assumed that front of these blocks were machined differently. One for hydraulic damping and one for friction damping.

A2 cylinder blocks.jpg


Does anybody know the differences between the two blocks listed for 1.4 TDi engines? The above A2OC thread suggests the front faces are universal. If this is the case there must be differences elsewhere.
 
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Perhaps i'm missing the point (and don't claim to be a mechanic), but if you are changing the whole engine, what difference would it make as to which timing setup it has?
 
A2Steve said:
Perhaps i'm missing the point (and don't claim to be a mechanic), but if you are changing the whole engine, what difference would it make as to which timing setup it has?
Click to expand...
If the car was off the road I would have bought and fitted an earlier AMF. However. despite the state of the inside of my engine, and probably too the turbo, it keeps going. So I can wait and benefit from the following:
I have the tools to work on friction damped engines
I have experience of working on friction damped engines
It is generally accepted that friction damped is better
I have a full set of spares for a friction damped engine
I this morning though I have widened my search to include BHC engines.
 
I've got a fabia AMF engine in the current breaker that supposedly has 90k on it. No evidence of this though.
 
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