Which brake pads/discs?
- Thread starter treeroy
- Start date
Edwrai
Member
It's an ATE front brake system, so I would go with ATE. Not necessarily from autodoc, but that's a useful website for finding aftermarket parts.
ATE 24.0122-0151.1 Front Brake Discs 8Z0615301D
(11) 8Z0 615 301 D brake disc (vented) 256X22 5/100 2
ATE 13.0460-7117.2 Front Brake Pads 1J0698151G
15 1J0 698 151 G 1 set: brake pads with wear indicator for disc brake 256X22MM 1
View attachment 90868
Audi Online Parts Catalogue
floating caliper brake; brake caliper housing; bra... Audi A2 (A2) 2005 year Audi EUROPA 615025
floating caliper brake<br/>brake caliper housing<br/>brake disc (vented) Audi A2 (A2) 2005 year Audi EUROPA 615025 spare partsaudi.7zap.com
I’ve had pagid on one car mintex on another and ATE on the 3rd, the car with ATE are noticeably better, but who knows could but a few factors.
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titusm
A2OC Donor
I am not saying increase brake size.
What i said is cheap brake pads DO A BAD JOB
Sorry but...i am a spirited driver...good brakes are a MUST.
Braking distance is very important. One extra meter of braking distance can mean jail.
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titusm
A2OC Donor
From what I tested so far:
Ate - usually keep the oem feel. Tested the "better" version from ate but I couldn't say I felt the difference. The ceramic version is only less dust but not better braking power.
TRW - are a disaster...do not use (i had a pair of pads braking in half...very bad stuff)
Bosch - lower than ATE but decent.
Ferodo premier - were good before ~2016 -after that they changed receipt and now are horrible
BREMBO X - last 2 years used as upgrade on both cars and finally I can say I can feel a difference in braking.
Jurid - the version i had destroyed my ATE grooved disk brakes before the pads were worn...so jurid with ate...not more. Braking feel was around ate pads.
With brembo X i am not so afraid of brake fading when going in the mountains or...when in a hurry in the city. (AND...i use ate typ 200 braking fluid with higher boiling point and tested at least once a year for moisture). Brembo X is better than simple brembo and you can feel the difference if you test both of them.
Also if your disk brake has a blackish or brown (do not confuse with small rust) surface ..it is better to change it - New pads on burned disks might sometime fix it...but from my experience is a big difference if you use on disks with "mirror like" surface and color.
Ate - usually keep the oem feel. Tested the "better" version from ate but I couldn't say I felt the difference. The ceramic version is only less dust but not better braking power.
TRW - are a disaster...do not use (i had a pair of pads braking in half...very bad stuff)
Bosch - lower than ATE but decent.
Ferodo premier - were good before ~2016 -after that they changed receipt and now are horrible
BREMBO X - last 2 years used as upgrade on both cars and finally I can say I can feel a difference in braking.
Jurid - the version i had destroyed my ATE grooved disk brakes before the pads were worn...so jurid with ate...not more. Braking feel was around ate pads.
With brembo X i am not so afraid of brake fading when going in the mountains or...when in a hurry in the city. (AND...i use ate typ 200 braking fluid with higher boiling point and tested at least once a year for moisture). Brembo X is better than simple brembo and you can feel the difference if you test both of them.
Also if your disk brake has a blackish or brown (do not confuse with small rust) surface ..it is better to change it - New pads on burned disks might sometime fix it...but from my experience is a big difference if you use on disks with "mirror like" surface and color.
Rosscopeco
Member
Well I ended up having to cancel the MTEC discs and pads as the delivery date changed and I’d not have received them in time for the MOT (today).
I ended up getting Pagid all round from eurocarparts for £80 as they were the only thing I could get quickly enough.
I also fully bled & replaced all the brake fluid.
I’m not sure what make of brake pad/disc was on the car before but the improvement in brake feel and power is very noticeable.
Ours is very much a city car, it rarely gets driven at speeds beyond 50 so the brakes aren’t taken to anywhere near the limit in terms of temperature and therefore fade. (That’s for the S4 where the Carbotech-Europe front pads alone cost almost £400 and work without fade at temperatures over 800C)
It’s an interesting thread this….one thing that I think we all agree on it that the quality of both your brakes and tyres is upmost in terms of safety. I’d far rather spend more money in the knowledge the brakes and tyres will stop the car asap.
If you’ve not already found the tyrereviews.com website, the wet/dry/cold braking distances between the premium, midrange & economy tyres is terrifyingly stunning.
We live in a part of Scotland where we have wet / damp roads arguably most of the time. The correct seasonal tyre with the best wet braking distance is always a must.
Stopping a meter short may not only save you jail time, it’ll also save a child’s life who runs onto the road.
Safe driving everyone.
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dj_efk
A2OC Donor
Good outcome. I think any decent brand is going to be an improvement on budget / no-name - however those that will have read my thread will know how anal I am when it comes to tyres (spoiler: Michelin, followed by Continental if I have to) - so it makes sense to think about brakes at the same time.
I picked up a set of new in the box Brembo pads from FB marketplace for £15 delivered - I’m happy to use them when the time comes based on feedback / experience of others in this thread. I wonder if the brand of brake disks makes any discernible difference (obviously excluding drilled / grooved upgrades of course) or if you can get away with just using branded aftermarket disks without any pedal feel loss?
I suppose cheaper disks are likely to wear quicker, but do you get the additional mileage out of OE quality or better disks to make the cost worthwhile (which is one of the key reasons why I like Michelin tyres by the way, not to mention Michelin are the only manufacturer to pay attention to their tyres performance degradation resistance as they wear).
I picked up a set of new in the box Brembo pads from FB marketplace for £15 delivered - I’m happy to use them when the time comes based on feedback / experience of others in this thread. I wonder if the brand of brake disks makes any discernible difference (obviously excluding drilled / grooved upgrades of course) or if you can get away with just using branded aftermarket disks without any pedal feel loss?
I suppose cheaper disks are likely to wear quicker, but do you get the additional mileage out of OE quality or better disks to make the cost worthwhile (which is one of the key reasons why I like Michelin tyres by the way, not to mention Michelin are the only manufacturer to pay attention to their tyres performance degradation resistance as they wear).
Rosscopeco
Member
I'm also with you there re premium tyres (currently a Michelin fan but will go to whomever 'wins' the latest tyre reviews tests)...I'm also positively evangelistic about the right tyre for the right season ie winters and summers. The latest Michelin Cross Climate 2 is getting very good reviews so I may dabbled with them in due course.
In my experience and this all relates to running much more powerful track cars, the make of disc don't actually make a significant difference. Disc size does of course make a difference ie it's easier to stop a vinyl record spinning if you go to the outside of the record and progressively harder as you move into the centre.
Calliper make and model makes a huge difference. Our A2 has a single piston which relies on the sliders within the calliper working to pull in the other pad. My S4 has upgraded Brembo brakes from a Porsche Cayenne (straight bolt on mod) and has 6 pistons, 3 on each side thus meaning you get much more pad being evenly pushed onto the disc surface. All the fancy crossed drilled discs just end up cracking where the holes are.
In terms of our lower power, lighter cars what does make a HUGE difference is the pad material AND then bedding them in properly. I'd like to try a few other makes of pad to see how each affect performance.
If you can lock your wheels under braking then your brakes are realistically strong enough. What pad compound (and bigger brakes / more calliper pistons) does is give you better modulation....and modulation is what's needed and key to being able to drive hard.
I'd maybe respectfully counter @titusm comments re a dark sheen on a disc...and again this relates to track cars so maybe a little at odd's to this forums and our A2's . Creating a dark sheen on your disc is actually very desirable....it's created when a little of the pad material adheres to the disc surface and creates 'significantly' better braking modulation than shiny silver disks. This same logic is used in mountain bike disk brakes. Mountain bike brakes that squeal can often (but not always) be resolved by several high speed stops thus creating more heat and transferring more pad materials onto the disc surface. That being said, no disrespect intended @titusm
Again and just to reiterate this all clearly relates to high performance set ups....our A2 isn't really used for that!
In my experience and this all relates to running much more powerful track cars, the make of disc don't actually make a significant difference. Disc size does of course make a difference ie it's easier to stop a vinyl record spinning if you go to the outside of the record and progressively harder as you move into the centre.
Calliper make and model makes a huge difference. Our A2 has a single piston which relies on the sliders within the calliper working to pull in the other pad. My S4 has upgraded Brembo brakes from a Porsche Cayenne (straight bolt on mod) and has 6 pistons, 3 on each side thus meaning you get much more pad being evenly pushed onto the disc surface. All the fancy crossed drilled discs just end up cracking where the holes are.
In terms of our lower power, lighter cars what does make a HUGE difference is the pad material AND then bedding them in properly. I'd like to try a few other makes of pad to see how each affect performance.
If you can lock your wheels under braking then your brakes are realistically strong enough. What pad compound (and bigger brakes / more calliper pistons) does is give you better modulation....and modulation is what's needed and key to being able to drive hard.
I'd maybe respectfully counter @titusm comments re a dark sheen on a disc...and again this relates to track cars so maybe a little at odd's to this forums and our A2's . Creating a dark sheen on your disc is actually very desirable....it's created when a little of the pad material adheres to the disc surface and creates 'significantly' better braking modulation than shiny silver disks. This same logic is used in mountain bike disk brakes. Mountain bike brakes that squeal can often (but not always) be resolved by several high speed stops thus creating more heat and transferring more pad materials onto the disc surface. That being said, no disrespect intended @titusm
Again and just to reiterate this all clearly relates to high performance set ups....our A2 isn't really used for that!
I've used MTEC discs on my A2 and they seemed okay initially but they wear out quickly and start to groan on brake application losing efficiency and this wasn't a brake pad issue. Also used on another car and the same experience. I won't buy this make again nor would I recommend to anyone
Rosscopeco
Member
Interesting....will keep an eye in this. When I spoke to the guys who make the Carbotech pads they said that MTEC just buy in stock discs and then mill / drill fancy grooves / holes in them. I got 24k out of my Brembo crossed drilled discs inc 2 x sets of pads. Time will tell....
titusm
A2OC Donor
(english is not my birth language) Maybe i did no express the condition correctly.
I do cycle a lot...and i've got big rotors and strong brakes there too
)..(220/200 with mt5 4pistons and metal brakepads) ) usually they squeak only when wet.I am referring to the ones like in this picture (from internet). I experienced this on the previous car - it was on the rear disks(maybe the previous owner had the rear brake stuck).
And...for an insurance issue...I burned a set in front myself...on my 1.4 fsi lupo (sold). When I stopped I had smoke coming from both wheels. (it took 5 km...and some decent braking -- trw brake pads and disks...)
If the temperature exceeds a certain threshold the iron on the surface will have a bad structure.
Bad disk:
Look like good surface:
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Rosscopeco
Member
No offence intended and that all makes perfect sense....the photo certainly look like the discs have been well cooked!
(english is not my birth language) Maybe i did no express the condition correctly.
I do cycle a lot...and i've got big rotors and strong brakes there too
I am referring to the ones like in this picture (from internet). I experienced this on the previous car - it was on the rear disks(maybe the previous owner had the rear brake stuck).
And...for an insurance issue...I burned a set in front myself...on my 1.4 fsi lupo (sold). When I stopped I had smoke coming from both wheels. (it took 5 km...and some decent braking -- trw brake pads and disks...)
If the temperature exceeds a certain threshold the iron on the surface will have a bad structure.
View attachment 91276
and the bellow color is fine:
View attachment 91277
Sounds like you have a decent mountain bike too with nice big rotors and great brakes...more of a Hope Tech4 man myself!
titusm
A2OC Donor
I've noticed that this happens also when a brake caliper gets stuck or when the car sits for a long time and the brake pads get rusted into place.
Not all people now how to determine this.
I was trying to raise awareness that this can be also an issue and maybe in that burned disk situation replacing the pads will not make a difference. I've seen it on lots of vw.
That's why sometimes when I get home from some spirited driving I use the thermal camera(on the phone) to see the temperature on disks and rear drums.
That is how I determined that one of the rear drums was stuck on my a2. One was 40 degrees vs 20 on the other side.
dj_efk
A2OC Donor
Raising this thread from the depths as my wife commented recently on how bad my brakes are when she used the car recently and met an oncoming car on a blind bend in the lanes round here. I have to admit she has a point - the pedal needs a large amount of pressure in order to activate the ABS and even then the pedal feel isn't confidence inspiring: It feels somewhat "squidgy" and lacks bite. I'm looking to address these issues:
The car has fresh brake fluid, new front Brembo pads as per my earlier post above and has new rear pads (Girling) - plus new calipers all round. I'm thinking I should now replace the flexi's with braided versions (there is a firm that manufactures these local to me - HEL), plus fit new discs.
I was thinking of going one of three ways for the discs:
1) Matching the brand of discs to the that of the front pads on the car (i.e. Brembo) - as my logic is they'll be designed to work together
2) Try a different brand of pad (TMC friction parent/owner company of Pagid / Mintex / Textar) and buy matching discs to that
3) Buy grooved / dimpled / drilled etc. discs - There are many brands that seem to be available.
Any thoughts?
The car has fresh brake fluid, new front Brembo pads as per my earlier post above and has new rear pads (Girling) - plus new calipers all round. I'm thinking I should now replace the flexi's with braided versions (there is a firm that manufactures these local to me - HEL), plus fit new discs.
I was thinking of going one of three ways for the discs:
1) Matching the brand of discs to the that of the front pads on the car (i.e. Brembo) - as my logic is they'll be designed to work together
2) Try a different brand of pad (TMC friction parent/owner company of Pagid / Mintex / Textar) and buy matching discs to that
3) Buy grooved / dimpled / drilled etc. discs - There are many brands that seem to be available.
Any thoughts?
CrispyEdd
Member
Such a tough one, ive driven renault clios with tony bargain basement pads discs and shoes and the brakes have been awesome. I ususally drive standard cheap discs and pads and its been okay but then it all depends how you brake, I dont tend to brake much! I dont think the cross drilling or nice looking discs help much a=on the A2 I would just go mathcing brand, mintex or bosch plain brakes...
dj_efk
A2OC Donor
Yes I don’t understand why the brakes are sub-optimal in terms of bite and feel - but the only things not new / recent are the discs and flexi hoses - other than the master cylinder (but the symptoms don’t match those of a duff one so I’m fairly sure this isn’t the problem).
I would re-bleed the braking system to make sure there isn't a bit of air trapped, especially as you have had work done recently and as @audifan would say don't forget to bleed the clutch too
Also just to say no matter how recent your front pads are, if fitting new discs you will need new pads too as otherwise the 'recent' pads which will have now bedded into the worn discs will ruin the new discs
audifan
A2OC Donor
The floating calipers need to be able to move on the pins. It is a good idea to use caliper grease on the pins where they pass through the bellows. If the pins have been cross threaded they may not be running true and the caliper could stick on them. If there is any doubt over the condition of the flexi pipes then replace them. Rubber ones as fine but fit braided if you wish.
Check there is good vacuum to the servo and it is not leaking. The master seals can fail due to age so if everything else is great then consider a master cylinder refurb or replacement.
Perform a VCDS brake bleed regardless of what else has been done after flushing out all the old brake fluid. Yes don't forget to bleed the clutch after the brakes.
I certainly know the brakes although are working correctly on the A2 are nowhere near as sharp as on my A1's
Check there is good vacuum to the servo and it is not leaking. The master seals can fail due to age so if everything else is great then consider a master cylinder refurb or replacement.
Perform a VCDS brake bleed regardless of what else has been done after flushing out all the old brake fluid. Yes don't forget to bleed the clutch after the brakes.
I certainly know the brakes although are working correctly on the A2 are nowhere near as sharp as on my A1's
audifan
A2OC Donor
All pads and discs take time to bed in but what is more surprising the the different feel you can get between different manufacturers and more so when you mix and match. Probably everyone over the years picks their preferred brands for brakes and tends to stick with them.
OEM work perfectly well and those should be used to measure the performance of other manufacturers to.
OEM work perfectly well and those should be used to measure the performance of other manufacturers to.