Winter Driver Training: Finland (now with pics!)

bretti_kivi

bretti_kivi

Member
Hi,

Some of the German club are seriously interested in coming over to me this winter for driver training in real conditions. The program itself is not 100% clear but will include an awful lot of work on ice, snow (packed and loose if I can find some) and something similar to the course everyone has to do here before they can get a licence (you know, like TopGear advertised back in the summer).

There will probably be four or five German A2s making the trip. Costs will be kept as low as possible, meaning self-catering accomodation. Car Rental is possible at the airport (with all the usual suspects) but it is not cheap.

If you wish to bring your own car, you are welcome to do so, but you will need winter tyres, either from central europe or northern versions. All-weathers will not cut it and may not be accepted by the police.

For you guys, the easy way to do it is Harwich - Hoek van holland - Stockholm, via the Öresund bridge or another ferry. 1500km one way from HvH to Stockholm.

The other toys to play with in the snow - like the dogsled, the snowmobiles or rallycars - well, I'm trying to accomodate wishes and many things should be possible.

If you are seriously interested, please let me know.

Bret
 
It has gone a couple of years since I visited Lahti :) Do you still have the traffic lights cut out in the evening? :D It's the one thing I remember the most cause I've always wondered why the lights are always red in Stockholm during the night even though there is no traffic from the other directions...:mad:

Well anyway, what month are you and the germans planning/thinking of?
A couple of things a was thinking;
- will there be ploghed ice maybe?
- will there be tractor to help with people leaving "the track"? :)
 
Hi Bretti,

I might be interested, we have some friends who have a lake house near Lahti. And have often thought of going, but it's a long way, and this could be the reason to come.

Depends on costs though.

Nick
 
We will probably do Saturday morning on a real "skidpan" with the session - passive counteraction - that all drivers have to do before they get a full licence here. That will probably be down towards Turku.

The idea is that those who get on a Ferry do so on Friday evening and get in early Saturday. We then start the session at 10 or so, finish *relatively* early and then drive to our base. Sat eve Sauna and whatever else I can think up :D

Sunday then a six hour session at the ice track provided we can get it. We'll probably share the time with the subaru club as it drops the prices and it will be very interesting to compare and contrast what's going on with different cars / tyres / conditions. Avoidance, Oversteer, understeer, hard braking on Ice and snow, handling and such like are all on the agenda. Turning ESP off, too :)
Passenger rides / coaching will be offered (most of the suby guys know the track so will be able to offer tips) to those who want it. I will be working this week on getting the instructor sorted and the rest of the "fixed" program for Sunday. Richie, if you have some ideas, please let me know.

I will be talking to a friend to ensure we have a Rangie around if required. The Suby club are pretty good at this, too :D The rangie would be nice as it would mean we can do some photos from its roof :)

Monday we'll probably try and get some of the real fun stuff sorted for those who wish. Some will also already disappear on Monday evening for Tuesday in Stockholm, Wednesday back towards home. An option for some time in Lahti and / or Helsinki can be arranged, as could some wilderness time (snowshoe stuff).

Costs will be kept to a minimum as far as possible.

From the UK: Harwich - Hoek van Holland - Fredrikshavn - Göteborg - Kapellskär - Naantali would be a good way to do it. Alternative could be Bergen, but it's an absolute ****** to get across to Oslo, which is itself another four -five hours from Stockholm.

It would be really cool to get some international flavour to this! Language will mainly be English, translators for German will be around (me, my wife) and svenska (well, the finnish variation) too.

Bret
 
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This sounds really interesting Bret! =) Hope some of the Brits will show up!
I might be of help here in Sweden if people need help with advice on where to stay over the night, what roads to choose/avoid or so...

As I see it - if it doesn't collide with something else or if my job can't let me go for these days - I'll shure as hell be there! Will probably bring the wife aswell!
It looks like you've covered up most parts of the trip from what I can see it! What lake are we driving? I have a friends OLD realitve where I stayed last time I visited down by Vesijärvi. But I think it'll be hotel this time...

Post a date as soon as you know something more! Much easier to plan the rest then! :)

Will you use your A2 or do you have something more appropriate for ice-driving? I'll have to see if I can find/borrow something 4x4 now since I've just sold the A4Q, FWD really sucks on ice :)
 
I will be using my A2, my wife will join us.

So that's my A2, three from Germany (two couples + 1 young guy), another two guys unconfirmed, and a T4 (older guy with wife).

Problem for the UK guys: winter tyres. Hmm. will have to look on the 'bay.

Right now, the plan is for Hyvinkää airport. I will try and get something set up for Saturday evening on the lake next to the "base" - which is Vesijärvi itself - but there are lots of rules these days and it might not be possible. I'd prefer daylight to shoot some video and stills, but light is precious and we have better things to do.

This is the Vauhtipuisto, next door: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DN2nijpRET0
This is the session I was at, with my camera: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpqorR09fuA&feature=channel

you see the layout quite nicely from that. We can do all sorts to start with on the runway section (the long straight towards the end of the lap) and the speeds won't be that high in an A2...

For a replacement: Audi 80 quattro - you know, like this one: http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/showDetails.html?id=122365156

Go on, bring 'em both :D

Bret
 
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Having looked into this, it's not that expensive.

Section 1: UK --> Harwich
ferry 1 leaves at 0900. Means an early start, but you can grab a cabin for a tenner, so you can take a nap :)
Gets in at 1630. Drive across Holland, via Bremen and Hamburg to Travemünde. Check in by 0200.
Ferry 2 leaves at 0300. It gets in on Saturday morning at 0645.

Costs: the Holland ferry is £49 each way.
The Finnlines one is €160 return + car + buffet (strongly recommended). Kids games, sauna and reasonably priced food and drink onboard. we're talking €3 for a 0.4l beer.

In other words, you're looking at around €500. Alternatives would include the tunnel or Calais-Dover.

Bret
 
ahyes, the costs for the course itself including teaching should stay below €200. That's 2 complete day's worth, day 1 theory + skidpan, day 2 ice + track.

Bret
 
Hi Bret

when are you look at doing this as it will depend on the date and geting time off work but i would like to have a go

cheers
Robin
 
Looks like costs for the training should be around €100 - €150 depending on just how much we push the boat out on Saturday afternoon / Sunday.

I'll try and make some calls later today and get some dates and accommodation costs. That will be self-catering (I will try and organise something for Saturday and Sunday evening). Breakfast is doable in the attached hotel.

Bret
 
Sweet to hear there'll be other A2's then... I'll look in to the possibility of lending a Quattro at the set date otherwise we'll just use "the little one" :) We've got good winter tires on and since we've just moved to parts of Stockholm where studded tires will be banned from next year it's a good time to make well use of them!

I think it's good for the wife to get real ice experience aswell since she just got her license! :) Do we pay the license for each of us even if we are in the same car?

This sounds like lots of fun Bret! :D
 
I might well just split per car, I'm not sure. Let's see just how high the costs are. One track has refused to play ball, but for that I have another name to follow up.

Bret
 
<bump>. I have an alternative location, alternative course (does the name Rauno Aaltonen mean anything?) and cheap accomodation (4 bedrooms, 14 beds, €1k for three nights, that's less than a ton per head).

I will have to jump on that soon, though, so I'll try and get hold of the motorsport people for their opinions tomorrow.

Bret
 
The motorsport people... I talked to them yesterday on the phone, they are interested, they speak the language and they have the time.

So, let's get more accurate:

Dates: Schedule for arrival in Finland on 27th Feb 2010 am. First departures will be Monday pm / Tuesday am for Tuesday evening ferry.
Location: Tahko <-- Click for a googlemaps view
Program: to be confirmed. Will include theory and practice.
Main points:
- braking with ABS and avoidance
- avoidance on ice and snow
- ESP: functionality, limitations
- handbrake turns and what's *not* possible
- ASR, EDS: coordination, turning them off and rapid starts on ice and snow
- ABS / ESP off and drifting
- Ice track

You do not have to have your car with you (you can fly in to Helsinki and on to Kuopio and rent something if you wish) but I would recommend it. If you do bring your car, you must have winter tyres. Studs are not acceptable in Germany, so if you want to go studded, drive via Denmark and Sweden. Other than that, leave the UK Thursday a.m, thursday pm Ferry from Germany (Travemünde)

Additional activities are available; huskies, snowmobiles, ATVs, ski slopes - the full winter program. I'm expecting that there will be around 20-25cm snow on the lake (yes, you read that right) and 50-75 elsewhere. The slopes will be open until 10 I expect (lit!) and skirental will be available. Tuition, too, if for example you want to learn to 'board....

There are lots of tips, tricks and hints in the big German thread about this, I will translate the more important ones.

I do not yet have accurate costs. I apologise now also for the fact this is "up north", but the weather is too fickle in southern Finland these days and we need ice.

If you are interested, we will probably need to confirm numbers with reasonable accuracy before the end of this month. So, get your calculator out (it's not going to be a spectacularly cheap weekend, I'll tell you that!) and check out the holiday schedule.

Bret
 
Nice to see a good planned weekend... Is it 450km from Helsinki to Nilsiä?

When will be the last date of entrance? Don't know yet wheather I'll get off from the job since we need to take mon+tue...

But it sounds pretty nice! Would have loved it though if it would have been in Lahtis but I completely undestand that there are more risks of less ice than in Koupio!
I spent a couple of days up in Ivalo in 2001 and the temperature went between 5-20C during day/night IN JULY..! :)
 
yep. It will probably be slightly shorter from umeå ;)

The 450kms is from Helsinki to Nilsiä, yes. I would like some approximate numbers at the end of this month, so I can try and book some accomodation (i know there will be a lot of people who are "unsure" for various reasons). I will also try and deal with the requests that have been made, I haven't forgotten. Ive been home Friday and all weekend looking after and entertaining my sick daughter (probably swineflu) but she's fine now, so it's full steam ahead.
I'd like to have the program and costs confirmed before the end of the month, too.

Bret
 
bretti_kivi said:
yep. It will probably be slightly shorter from umeå ;)

The 450kms is from Helsinki to Nilsiä, yes. I would like some approximate numbers at the end of this month, so I can try and book some accomodation (i know there will be a lot of people who are "unsure" for various reasons). I will also try and deal with the requests that have been made, I haven't forgotten. Ive been home Friday and all weekend looking after and entertaining my sick daughter (probably swineflu) but she's fine now, so it's full steam ahead.
I'd like to have the program and costs confirmed before the end of the month, too.

Bret
Click to expand...

Lets just say that I'm up for two spots if stuff doesn't get in the way! We'll be coming with the A2 then!

Hope your daughter gets better quickly!

Keep us posted with info! :)
 
well, two guys from Germany have now confirmed. They'll be returning for some sightseeing in Helsinki on Tuesday morning before taking the evening ferry back.

The tyres question: there's a company directly in the harbour called "Tikkurilan rengas". They are very good. I will call them and ask for a price on some a2-suitable tyres. The idea would be to get some "viking contacts" depending on the weather. Viking contacts mean the softer rubber mix for colder northern conditions. They'll wear slightly faster in warm ones, but considering how long you'll need them in the UK, that's not really an issue.
Spikes are unfortunately verboten in Germany.

If there's a need to drop some tyres off at my house for storage over the weekend, well, we're on the way :D

I'd be interested in helping out with someone's costs if they would be prepared to ship some stuff for me, i.e. my 17s back to the UK for refurb.

Bret
 
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