Winter Driver Training: Finland (now with pics!)
- Thread starter bretti_kivi
- Start date
bretti_kivi
Member
actually, there's one. The accommodation - I will visit it a week on Saturday - will be 2 x 4 person and 1 x 8 person cottages. That way you privacy-seekers will get what you were looking for.
The first ice track session of this season is booked for the 17th and I will be going along to photograph; a couple of weeks later we'll get together to confirm the instructors, the exercises and formats, along with necessary equipment and where it's coming from.
Bret
The first ice track session of this season is booked for the 17th and I will be going along to photograph; a couple of weeks later we'll get together to confirm the instructors, the exercises and formats, along with necessary equipment and where it's coming from.
Bret
Cptsideways
Member
Hmmm just spotted this, I'm a race circuit instructor here in the UK & have done plenty of ice driving over the years, these days are great fun & I try & squeeze a few days of slideyness if I'm ever up north as such, need any additional instructors??
PS who's got winter tyres on their A2? mine is mega in the snow & ice on the snowies
PS who's got winter tyres on their A2? mine is mega in the snow & ice on the snowies
bretti_kivi
Member
well... I know who the other guys are and we'll meet up at the end of the month. Fly or drive?
I'd also like a *bit* more info about who you are, but we can do that via PM.
Bret
I'd also like a *bit* more info about who you are, but we can do that via PM.
Bret
bretti_kivi
Member
I will not comment further on these.... I froze my tail off to get them, let's put it like that 
bretti_kivi
Member
rides are not a problem as far as I am aware.
I was just going through the exercises with my partner in crime - this should be pretty damned cool. We have a total of 5 hours track time, so we don't have to rush anything. This will be very interesting to see how this works; we have eight things worked out right now and I think some will be surprisingly difficult.
We'll also make some time for food and stuff during the afternoon, but the main thing will be one hour per session, I think. I would like to have the difficult stuff done by 17:15 so that we're not training at dusk, but we can go drive a few laps.
BTW: Hella Comet Xenons are fantastic. Even if they are aimed wrong, they still kick serious butt.
Bret
I was just going through the exercises with my partner in crime - this should be pretty damned cool. We have a total of 5 hours track time, so we don't have to rush anything. This will be very interesting to see how this works; we have eight things worked out right now and I think some will be surprisingly difficult.
We'll also make some time for food and stuff during the afternoon, but the main thing will be one hour per session, I think. I would like to have the difficult stuff done by 17:15 so that we're not training at dusk, but we can go drive a few laps.
BTW: Hella Comet Xenons are fantastic. Even if they are aimed wrong, they still kick serious butt.
Bret
Richie.se
Member
Sounds sweet!
And a total agree to the Hellas! Had same on the A4 avant and specially during winter when the snow reflects they were awsome! Strong, long and wide light angle! I had good use of mine since my truck was parked far out in the woods at night, but now it's parked in town so no use for extra lights on the A2!
bretti_kivi
Member
More info:
Ice Session breakdown:
1300 – 1315 Setup
1315 – 1415 – practice 1
1415 – 1445 setup + coffee + analysis
1445 – 1545 – practice 2
1545 – 1615 setup + coffee + analysis
1615 – 1715 - practice 3
1715 – 1745 freies fahren
1745 - breakdown
The breaks are there for several reasons: because it's cold out, and because it's going to take time to distribute cones etc. round the track. Not to mention the trading of thoughts and ideas.
There will be three groups and three exercises running concurrently.
Exercise 1 - through - drive to 2 - through - drive to 3 - through - back to 1. Should have time for 5-6 times "through" for each exercise within the hour.
This way, we limit the standing around. We'll probably have 2-3 spaces for each exercise, too. The big ones will be on the runway - and there it's really doable - and the smaller ones on the rest of the track.
Each group will be 4 cars ATM.
Ethos / aims
Some of the rules below and the exercises themselves may sound silly, simple and pointless, but we've thought this through. There's a reason behind everything, and the entire aim is "competent and accurate driving in crappy conditions".
Rules
1. If you have a problem on the track - Hazard warning lights.
If you see them, slow down NOW. The organiser cars will have nice flashing lights on the roof.
2. Do not get out of the car on the track unless you absolutely must.
3. If you are crossing the track on foot, it is *your* responsibility to get out of the way.
4. If you are catching someone up, you are driving "too fast"; they can let you past ON THE LEFT if they want.
5. We're not in the UK; pass on the left and there only.
6. Keep your eyes open - if the guy in front has just spun - hazards.
7. This is not a race track, it is not a race event, there will be *no* timing of any sort. This is practice. Treat it as such.
8. If you need help for whatever reason, call.
9. If you are a spectator: do not stand too close to the track. You are in danger if you are closer than 1m. The danger may be from snow or it may be from cars. Don't settle and be prepared to run.
10. Park only in the "car park". The "toilet" is also there. This is our rendezvous point.
11. Leaving the track is done in a queue and only when there's no one driving. Control of the gate is with the organisers alone!
Tips
1. If you "eat snow" - head first into a barrier - clear it out.
2. This is - for most of you - the first ice track you've been on. The lack of grip is astounding and we'll work with you to understand how far you can push things.
3. Snow is deeper than you think.
I will update this post as and when necessary.
It looks like I will add another space or three to the accommodation, so if someone still wants to join us - shout out.
Bret
Ice Session breakdown:
1300 – 1315 Setup
1315 – 1415 – practice 1
1415 – 1445 setup + coffee + analysis
1445 – 1545 – practice 2
1545 – 1615 setup + coffee + analysis
1615 – 1715 - practice 3
1715 – 1745 freies fahren
1745 - breakdown
The breaks are there for several reasons: because it's cold out, and because it's going to take time to distribute cones etc. round the track. Not to mention the trading of thoughts and ideas.
There will be three groups and three exercises running concurrently.
Exercise 1 - through - drive to 2 - through - drive to 3 - through - back to 1. Should have time for 5-6 times "through" for each exercise within the hour.
This way, we limit the standing around. We'll probably have 2-3 spaces for each exercise, too. The big ones will be on the runway - and there it's really doable - and the smaller ones on the rest of the track.
Each group will be 4 cars ATM.
Ethos / aims
Some of the rules below and the exercises themselves may sound silly, simple and pointless, but we've thought this through. There's a reason behind everything, and the entire aim is "competent and accurate driving in crappy conditions".
Rules
1. If you have a problem on the track - Hazard warning lights.
If you see them, slow down NOW. The organiser cars will have nice flashing lights on the roof.
2. Do not get out of the car on the track unless you absolutely must.
3. If you are crossing the track on foot, it is *your* responsibility to get out of the way.
4. If you are catching someone up, you are driving "too fast"; they can let you past ON THE LEFT if they want.
5. We're not in the UK; pass on the left and there only.
6. Keep your eyes open - if the guy in front has just spun - hazards.
7. This is not a race track, it is not a race event, there will be *no* timing of any sort. This is practice. Treat it as such.
8. If you need help for whatever reason, call.
9. If you are a spectator: do not stand too close to the track. You are in danger if you are closer than 1m. The danger may be from snow or it may be from cars. Don't settle and be prepared to run.
10. Park only in the "car park". The "toilet" is also there. This is our rendezvous point.
11. Leaving the track is done in a queue and only when there's no one driving. Control of the gate is with the organisers alone!
Tips
1. If you "eat snow" - head first into a barrier - clear it out.
2. This is - for most of you - the first ice track you've been on. The lack of grip is astounding and we'll work with you to understand how far you can push things.
3. Snow is deeper than you think.
I will update this post as and when necessary.
It looks like I will add another space or three to the accommodation, so if someone still wants to join us - shout out.
Bret
bretti_kivi
Member
I'm trying
It looks like we'll have some other colleagues of mine around the place over the weekend; one will be photographing and another will be bringing their Touran and probably staying overnight, too. So there's another couple of beds available if someone decides that they want to join us?
The price mentioned above appears to be very doable right now and will allow some niceties. It doesn't include the hotel on Monday night in Helsinki.
Friday I'll throw in a carwash at my office as it also means we get some parking time for free (!) and then the cars should stay clean for the pics.
I'm waiting at the moment on feedback from the campsite to confirm the Sauna for Saturday and the lunches and the accommodation itself. Turns out my company's used the place, too, and it comes recommended.
Bret
It looks like we'll have some other colleagues of mine around the place over the weekend; one will be photographing and another will be bringing their Touran and probably staying overnight, too. So there's another couple of beds available if someone decides that they want to join us?
The price mentioned above appears to be very doable right now and will allow some niceties. It doesn't include the hotel on Monday night in Helsinki.
Friday I'll throw in a carwash at my office as it also means we get some parking time for free (!) and then the cars should stay clean for the pics.
I'm waiting at the moment on feedback from the campsite to confirm the Sauna for Saturday and the lunches and the accommodation itself. Turns out my company's used the place, too, and it comes recommended.
Bret
bretti_kivi
Member
tum te tum te tum ..
bretti_kivi
Member
talked to two of the guys who will be helping us today over lunch. Very cool, they know what they're doing; one drives a BMW, the other an A3. So Sunday there will most definitely be some interesting opportunities on the ice.
The exercises are almost sorted now, we'll do the difficult ones Sunday.
This is the state of play right now:
Revised Hyvinkää Timetable
Track location: 60.752776 N ,24.838693 E
Accommodation location: 61.016182 N, 25.559521 E
Thursday, 25.2 0300 - ferry from Travemünde, Group 1
Friday, 26.2 0300 - ferry from Travemünde, Group 2
Friday, 26.2 0700 - Arrival in Vuosaari, Group 1
- Time in Helsinki
- Carwash & Dry
- ca. 1400, drive to Lahti. Some shopping, acclimatisation, find the accommodation. Spend some time in the snow.
Sat 27.2 0700 - Group 2 arrives in Vuosaari. They hit the road.
Everyone to meet the at the campsite at 10am.
10:00 - 11:30 - Intro, Orga, Exercise explanations, Theory.
11:30 - 12:15 - early lunch in the Restaurant (will be included)
12:20 - 12:50 - drive to Hyvinkää
Ice Session 1
1300 – 1315 Setup
1315 – 1400 – practice 1
1415 – 1445 setup + coffee + analysis
1445 – 1530 – practice 2
1530 – 1600 setup + coffee + analysis
1600 – 1645 - practice 3
1645 – 1715 setup + coffee + analysis
1720 - ca.1750 freies fahren
1750 breakdown
The pauses are there because it's cold and it's going to take 5 mins to get out to the cones and another 5 to put them back out again. At least. And there should be some time to talk through what worked and what didn't!
Exercise 1 - through - drive to 2 - through - drive to 3 - through - back to 1. Should have time for 5-6 times "through" for each exercise within the hour.
This way, we limit the standing around. We'll probably have 2-3 spaces for each exercise.
Sat Evening
Sauna, beer, food. Icehole swimming will be investigated.
At least two of my German-speaking colleagues will join us. The guys helping out at the track are also invited, so it should be a pretty cool evening.
Sunday
Ice session 2
Track time is booked from 09:00-13:00.
Exercises will be defined Saturday evening, depending on what was difficult and interesting.
The Subaru guys who are helping will have some space to practice (google "cyclone") from 0800 to 0900. It's "more interesting" than cash to a certain extent
We can turn up "whenever", I anticipate arriving just after 9.
We will go through the difficult stuff, the interesting stuff and Harri has had some extremely cool ideas for very, very difficult but realistic stuff.
So: no timetable here. Lunch we'll organize.
Passenger rides definitely available, if we want to practice drifting, this will be the time to do it. Essentially, anything goes. Photos, videos, brake tests (!!) - no problem.
Subaru club sessions in the afternoon will be very good for demos and photography, but they will be overbooked. There has been a limit placed of 24 cars.
Therefore: Sunday afternoon more than available for alternative entertainment. I will investigate what, how and where. Those of use who want to can stand around, stare and photograph, drink coffee and grab a ride.
Monday
Frozen lake time will be organised, photos / videos. Precise location TBC. Probably to the skijump museum + simulator.
To Helsinki in the afternoon.
Monday evening's hostel will be reserved by me.
Tuesday
Helsinki. Tourist tour + x.
Costs
Total cost, including the weekend's accommodation, track costs, instructors of €250.
Those who are not driving / not using the accommodation will pay half price, please, I think this is reasonable.
Entertainment while we're at the track should be doable; if you like horseriding, I can happily organise a trek (and I'd *strongly* recommend it).
That cost includes cottage, sauna, track, parking and wash on Friday, food basics (I'll go shopping for those beforehand, stuff like coffee, bread, milk...) but not sheets or towels. I am working out how to get refreshments sorted at the track (probably a fire and some sausages / twisties / coffee / tea).
Accommodation will probably be in one big cottage.
What's not included:
- Vehicle Fuel
- Beer (thread about this later....)
- Monday's Hotel I will book as a group, but it will not be paid for.
The remainder of the €250 is due
The exercises are almost sorted now, we'll do the difficult ones Sunday.
This is the state of play right now:
Revised Hyvinkää Timetable
Track location: 60.752776 N ,24.838693 E
Accommodation location: 61.016182 N, 25.559521 E
Thursday, 25.2 0300 - ferry from Travemünde, Group 1
Friday, 26.2 0300 - ferry from Travemünde, Group 2
Friday, 26.2 0700 - Arrival in Vuosaari, Group 1
- Time in Helsinki
- Carwash & Dry
- ca. 1400, drive to Lahti. Some shopping, acclimatisation, find the accommodation. Spend some time in the snow.
Sat 27.2 0700 - Group 2 arrives in Vuosaari. They hit the road.
Everyone to meet the at the campsite at 10am.
10:00 - 11:30 - Intro, Orga, Exercise explanations, Theory.
11:30 - 12:15 - early lunch in the Restaurant (will be included)
12:20 - 12:50 - drive to Hyvinkää
Ice Session 1
1300 – 1315 Setup
1315 – 1400 – practice 1
1415 – 1445 setup + coffee + analysis
1445 – 1530 – practice 2
1530 – 1600 setup + coffee + analysis
1600 – 1645 - practice 3
1645 – 1715 setup + coffee + analysis
1720 - ca.1750 freies fahren
1750 breakdown
The pauses are there because it's cold and it's going to take 5 mins to get out to the cones and another 5 to put them back out again. At least. And there should be some time to talk through what worked and what didn't!
Exercise 1 - through - drive to 2 - through - drive to 3 - through - back to 1. Should have time for 5-6 times "through" for each exercise within the hour.
This way, we limit the standing around. We'll probably have 2-3 spaces for each exercise.
Sat Evening
Sauna, beer, food. Icehole swimming will be investigated.
At least two of my German-speaking colleagues will join us. The guys helping out at the track are also invited, so it should be a pretty cool evening.
Sunday
Ice session 2
Track time is booked from 09:00-13:00.
Exercises will be defined Saturday evening, depending on what was difficult and interesting.
The Subaru guys who are helping will have some space to practice (google "cyclone") from 0800 to 0900. It's "more interesting" than cash to a certain extent
We will go through the difficult stuff, the interesting stuff and Harri has had some extremely cool ideas for very, very difficult but realistic stuff.
So: no timetable here. Lunch we'll organize.
Passenger rides definitely available, if we want to practice drifting, this will be the time to do it. Essentially, anything goes. Photos, videos, brake tests (!!) - no problem.
Subaru club sessions in the afternoon will be very good for demos and photography, but they will be overbooked. There has been a limit placed of 24 cars.
Therefore: Sunday afternoon more than available for alternative entertainment. I will investigate what, how and where. Those of use who want to can stand around, stare and photograph, drink coffee and grab a ride.
Monday
Frozen lake time will be organised, photos / videos. Precise location TBC. Probably to the skijump museum + simulator.
To Helsinki in the afternoon.
Monday evening's hostel will be reserved by me.
Tuesday
Helsinki. Tourist tour + x.
Costs
Total cost, including the weekend's accommodation, track costs, instructors of €250.
Those who are not driving / not using the accommodation will pay half price, please, I think this is reasonable.
Entertainment while we're at the track should be doable; if you like horseriding, I can happily organise a trek (and I'd *strongly* recommend it).
That cost includes cottage, sauna, track, parking and wash on Friday, food basics (I'll go shopping for those beforehand, stuff like coffee, bread, milk...) but not sheets or towels. I am working out how to get refreshments sorted at the track (probably a fire and some sausages / twisties / coffee / tea).
Accommodation will probably be in one big cottage.
What's not included:
- Vehicle Fuel
- Beer (thread about this later....)
- Monday's Hotel I will book as a group, but it will not be paid for.
The remainder of the €250 is due
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bretti_kivi
Member
It gets closer....
Forecasts are about the only thing I'm not 100% on. Anyways, it's looking pretty good right now. We'll be meeting up in the shopping centre "Columbus" out at Vuosaari early on, washing the cars there, and then heading into town for a look-see. We'll head out towards Riihimäki at 13:00 or so.
We'll clear up the remainder of the exercises this week. We have the runway, probably, on Saturday, and the track on Sunday.
Bret
Forecasts are about the only thing I'm not 100% on. Anyways, it's looking pretty good right now. We'll be meeting up in the shopping centre "Columbus" out at Vuosaari early on, washing the cars there, and then heading into town for a look-see. We'll head out towards Riihimäki at 13:00 or so.
We'll clear up the remainder of the exercises this week. We have the runway, probably, on Saturday, and the track on Sunday.
Bret
Sounds good. I was just thinking the car washing during the trip. Haven't actually washed the vehicle after Christmas! So i need to do it this week separately as I'm not joining you Friday yet.
Btw was it mentioned where is this campsite located. (referred to here:
"Everyone to meet the at the campsite at 10am.") Most probably would try joining rest of you there.
Btw was it mentioned where is this campsite located. (referred to here:
"Everyone to meet the at the campsite at 10am.") Most probably would try joining rest of you there.
Richie.se
Member
Heah it's getting real close now!
Neither have I washed the car since christmas! It's SOOO dirty! It has actually been to cold to wash it, I'm afraid the doors won't open the morning after...
Should I brink the bucket and shampoo and all?
At what time do you want us to be at Columbus (since I'm coming with the Swedish ferry 09.55...)? And at what phonenumber can I reach you?
+358 number will be good
Neither have I washed the car since christmas!
It's SOOO dirty! It has actually been to cold to wash it, I'm afraid the doors won't open the morning after...Should I brink the bucket and shampoo and all?
At what time do you want us to be at Columbus (since I'm coming with the Swedish ferry 09.55...)? And at what phonenumber can I reach you?
+358 number will be good
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bretti_kivi
Member
Columbus has wash-boxes work phone: xxx --> that should make sense to you
Only problem now is the weather. I will try to get confirmation from the träckmeister about weather conditions and their effect tomorrow when I meet with the Orga guys in Hyvinkää.
Everything else looks really good. I'm missing one payment, but that's it; we have a projector for Saturday's meeting (at the cottage), beer for Saturday night and a decent crowd. We'll be leaving Helsinki at around 13-1400, I think.
Bret
work phone: xxx --> that should make sense to you Only problem now is the weather. I will try to get confirmation from the träckmeister about weather conditions and their effect tomorrow when I meet with the Orga guys in Hyvinkää.
Everything else looks really good. I'm missing one payment, but that's it; we have a projector for Saturday's meeting (at the cottage), beer for Saturday night and a decent crowd. We'll be leaving Helsinki at around 13-1400, I think.
Bret
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