ECO cars 2010 and beyond?

ecoangel

Well-Known Member
I intend to keep the A2 1.2 TDI for as long as possible (BJ 06/2001, 115,000 miles now) because there is nothing out there to replace it in terms of:

MPG: 80 to 100 mpg (UK)
CO2: 81 to 86 g/km so ZERO road tax.
Practicality - IKEA flat pack 2.4m BONDE shelving boxes!

Yes there is the Polo Bluemotion and Seat Ibiza equivalent but both have LOWER MPG and pump out over 100g/km CO2 with Aircon and aren't as flexible inside.

So maybe this is the answer in 2010?

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/0...agen-reveals-polo-bluemotion-concept-87-g-km/


But I still like this for commuting:

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/04/15/loremo-ev-goes-for-its-first-drive-video/
 
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LOL.. I think about 2:53 seconds into the video in bottom link there appears to be a Red A2 haunting this car ...:)


SARGE
 
For your next car, I would suggest an electric car from a mainstream producer in 2011 (when the government will allegedly be subsidising them by £5K). In theory there is an electric Mitsubishi i, small Subaru and Smart etc etc on the way. These cars will have a typical range of 60-120 miles which sounds rubbish but actually is enough for 95% of people's daily journeys. You can already buy a Li-Ion electric Citroen C1 Evie for £16,580. £12K for an Li-Ion electric city car is not far off, then keep the A2 for long journeys and bulky loads.
 
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I wouldn't bet on an electric car just yet, they must still compromise a lot to carry the battery. Interestingly, London has really started to accommodate these cars with charging poles at the parking bay. It was a little surprising to see couple of G-wizzes charging while parked on the street.

But I think your best bet is the bluemotion polo, I kind of like it too.
 
ha ha you your tube freaks!

Yes I would need 200 mile range bfore committing to electric only car.
 
Hybrid braking problems

New Prius may have recall son due Brake issues:

"The problem is that hybrids (and upcoming electric vehicles) actually have two different braking mechanisms. They have the traditional hydraulic friction braking system that has been used for most of the past century. However, they also use regenerative braking to convert kinetic energy back to electrical energy to charge the battery. The problem arises from the fact that there is only one control mechanism, the brake pedal. So electronics and complex hydraulics are used to blend the amount of braking from the two systems to provide a net deceleration in proportion to the amount of pressure the driver applies to the pedal.

This would all be fine if the behavior of both systems was completely predictable. If that were the case, both could be modeled mathematically and the estimated torque from each could be calculated. Unfortunately, friction brakes can exhibit significant variability caused by wear, humidity, temperature and numerous other factors. The controls and calibration engineers spend tens of thousands of man hours testing and developing the systems to attempt to ensure that they behave predictably and consistently in over the life of the car and under different operating conditions.

The problem reportedly being experienced on the new Prius relates to an apparent loss of deceleration when the brakes transition from regen to friction braking. Having worked on the controls for similar brake systems in a previous life as an engineer, this is not an uncommon problem. Typically, it occurs when the friction brakes are producing less torque than the model predicts.

A number of things could cause this. The most basic is the brake linings, which could have less friction than expected. In this case, the control algorithm should be able to learn and compensate for this. The problem might also be related to the pressure sensors in the hydraulic unit that are part of the closed loop control. Sensors can have erroneous signals or drift over time and temperature. Again, there are mechanisms to correct for this, but they are not perfect. Not being familiar with the details of the Prius system, we can only speculate about has changed in the new version.

Based on the information in the reports, there is one more possibility. Apparently, at least some of the owners experienced the perceived loss of deceleration after hitting a bump or pot-hole. When we reviewed the Prius, we noted that its newly revised suspension setup seemed to handle larger road imperfections well, but it was a bit over-damped on small sharp inputs. This could cause the tire to lose adhesion with the road in this case and thus start to exhibit slip. The brake system could be detecting this sudden increase in wheel deceleration (as opposed to vehicle deceleration) and proactively reducing brake torque to try and prevent impending wheel lock and the need for full-blown ABS control. If (and we stress IF) this is being done too aggressively, it could be what drivers are feeling. We never experienced any such behavior when we drove the Prius, but we wouldn't rule it out under the right conditions. If you own a third-generation Prius and have experienced anything like this, let us – and more importantly NHTSA and your Toyota dealer – know. It may not be a real problem, but if it is Toyota, will need as many data points as possible in order to diagnose and fix it."
 
Do like the new polo, not very interested in paying the heavy premium on top of the basic price.
Having just changed jobs with a journey of 6 miles a day an electric car would fit my commute. I do a 60 mile journey once a week.
It would not buy the Prius or the new Prius based Lexus either. Never liked posh Toyotas' either.
 
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Ive been thinking outside the box on this and petrol/diesel or electric are as bad as each other.

Petrol/diesel they have to drill and all the associated refining.

Electric you plug it into the mains and where does that come from powerstations with there co2 discharges.

Of the 2 petrol/diesel gives the greater economy i think.
 
I think the only real attraction of electric and hybrid vehicles is for inner city transport where they help reduce pollution concentration levels. Away from stop-start city traffic the advantages of the hybrids regenerative braking systems are almost lost and as the road tests show, fuel efficiency on open road motoring is not brilliant.

Cheers Spike
 
I like this VW:

http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/volkswagen-up-lite-2009-12-04

IMHO the game doesn't seem to have moved on much (or at all?) since the A2/Lupo 3L of 10 years ago, criminal really.

To me the the Aygo/C1/107 are the cleverest eco cars at the minute, as they are *reasonably* light at under 900kg and also a low price (unlike all the bluemotion/hybrid stuff)

Gordon Murray's T25 looks like something revolutionary, with it's unusual 3 seater layout, really looking forward to that coming out, and that's meant to be at a low price also:

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Green-...Gordon-Murray-Design-T25-2012-first-pictures/

http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/gordon-murray-t25-2009-09-04

I liked the Toyota IQ in concept, but it's heavy and expensive, hopefully the T25 will blow it out the water!
 
I'm in the new car launch/test business & get to see a lot of the "new stuff" often years before general release.

I personally wont even consider an electric only car, for the simple reason range is only a guesstimate based on how the car is driven. I don't live in a city either. Electric cars are a tempory manufacturer measure thing to keep the hippies happy for the forseeable future & they can sell some new cars too.

However - hybid maybe, from the simple fact regenerative braking is quite a good concept, a diesel/petrol hybid is also more efficient than a coal powered fire station making electricity!

Personally for me a car needs at least a 500m range that I can just jump in & go somewhere, but then I'm a very high mileage driver on average.
 
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Do like the new polo, not very interested in paying the heavy premium on top of the basic price.
Having just changed jobs with a journey of 6 miles a day an electric car would fit my commute. I do a 60 mile journey once a week.
It would not buy the Prius or the new Prius based Lexus either. Never liked posh Toyotas' either.

Surely for 6 miles, or even 6 miles each way, riding a bike is the best option?
 
I am also of exactly the same opinion as Lukas. I've now had my 1.2 Tdi for 7 years and have done 105,000 miles. I can't see me ever getting rid of this brilliant car. I average about 90mpg running around town and have had as much as 120mpg on a very careful run.
I can't see anything in development which is less damaging to the environment.
Electric cars create pollution at the power station (until we get over the bias against wind generators in the UK) and where will we get all the hydrogen from if we all get fuel cell cars? Electrolysis of water is the main way of getting hydrogen and this uses lots of electricity! Back to square one.
Manufacturers are slowly getting closer but there's still nothing (including the Blue Motion Lupo) that offers the same combination of economy and practicality that the A2 3L offers.
 
Manufacturers are slowly getting closer but there's still nothing (including the Blue Motion Lupo) that offers the same combination of economy and practicality that the A2 3L offers.

Blue Motion Lupo? You must have some inside info!!!! The future (L)Up(o) Lite looks good - 65g/km.

RAB
 
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