is that battery volts without alternator?
:( Steering gone … again
- Thread starter Bordos
- Start date
Bordos
Member
Yes, after 12h without driving
Sylvester
Member
What unit 2.6 is? I assume it's not voltage.
PlasticMac
Member
I think, that would generate a DTC.
Mac.
PlasticMac
Member
I am not aware of any diagnostic monitoring of the power steering.
The symbol showing, is not, (as far as I know), on the list of displayed warnings/alarms either, which is strange.
Do you feel that there's a problem with the steering, when the light is on, or is it just the light with no associated symptoms?
Mac.
The symbol showing, is not, (as far as I know), on the list of displayed warnings/alarms either, which is strange.
Do you feel that there's a problem with the steering, when the light is on, or is it just the light with no associated symptoms?
Mac.
re 2. I never had an issue with starting. It was always after driving a short while. Would charge or replace your battery if possible and see how you go. I do think A2's depend on a good battery more than any other vehicle I have ever run
When I had this issue, power assistance was lost while the symbol displayed in DIS, unnerving when driving or taking a turn and it suddenly shuts power assistance down. Switching off and restarting, 9times /10 it would be fine. I never changed any steering component , oil or anything to resolve ......only battery and have touch wood never had any issue since. .. another thing i would check is , is alternator on way out?
PlasticMac
Member
The electric power steering pump was unusual back then, and draws a lot of power, 3 to 400 Watts. That's a huge drain on the battery/alternator.
So the supply to the pump should be priority. All the way from battery to pump connection, positive and negative, (earth).
Edit: My guess at power draw, may be out, by as much as a factor of 2. With an 80 amp fuse, could be 600 to 750, Watts, maybe more.
As well as the cable from the fuse to the pump, check the supply to the fuse as well.
Mac.
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Bordos
Member
So the funny bit is that after a "bad day" - the steering worked perfectly fine for 1500km ...
Nevertheless the plan is:
1. Check the power connector on the steering HPU,
2. Check the earth connection below the ABS unit (the big one - going from the chassy to the engine),
3. Check why the alternator is giving 14,0 -14,1V - not 14,5V,
4. Charge the battery with external charger.
BTW: I hate then a fault is only sometimes and don't leave any trace of itself ...
And one important question:
While diagnosing the steering controller - is it possible in A2 to connect directly to Steering Assistance (44) ? I can read steering angle in ABS module (03) but it is not possible to connect to module 44...
Nevertheless the plan is:
1. Check the power connector on the steering HPU,
2. Check the earth connection below the ABS unit (the big one - going from the chassy to the engine),
3. Check why the alternator is giving 14,0 -14,1V - not 14,5V,
4. Charge the battery with external charger.
BTW: I hate then a fault is only sometimes and don't leave any trace of itself ...
And one important question:
While diagnosing the steering controller - is it possible in A2 to connect directly to Steering Assistance (44) ? I can read steering angle in ABS module (03) but it is not possible to connect to module 44...
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PlasticMac
Member
Are there any sensors in the power steering circuit? I can't think of any.
The power steering pump is driven by a DC motor, which will have brushes. Brushes wear, and after 15 to 20 years, they are bound to have worn. They could be sticking in the sliding holder, causing problems, then a bump, and they are free to move again. The spring that holds them against the commutator may be weakened too.
Mac.
PlasticMac
Member
Also, I don't think a dodgy joint, or contact, would pass 50 or 60 amps one minute and be open circuit the next.
Mac.
Bordos
Member
I agree that worn brushes could give similar issues - but I started to have this problem very rare about 2 years ago, and had very long periods of smooth operation (last time it happened in December) - and with worn bushes it should fail soon after first symptoms occurs.
If my attempts to repair it otherwise than by replacing the HPU fails, I will do it - but as it is very costly I am not considering it at this point.
PlasticMac
Member
Just had a read up, on the power steering system, in SSP240, worth a look.
Check out the *Power Steering Sensor, G 250. It seems to be the only sensor in the actual PS circuit.
Located in the dome of the power steering box, according to the SSP, looks to be at the base of the steering column.
If the sensor fails, it triggers the dash warning you are seeing, but the power steering defaults to a "safe mode" where assistance is still provided, but with increased effort required of the driver.
*However, this sensor was deleted at some point, (maybe with the change from Mk20 to Mk60 ABS), and the steering angle sensor, along with the road speed, only is used.
So, I'd suggest looking to see if your car has the G250, if it has, that is a likely suspect I reckon. Ross-Tech info here.
If not, then electro mechanical problem, as earlier posts.
Mac.
Check out the *Power Steering Sensor, G 250. It seems to be the only sensor in the actual PS circuit.
Located in the dome of the power steering box, according to the SSP, looks to be at the base of the steering column.
If the sensor fails, it triggers the dash warning you are seeing, but the power steering defaults to a "safe mode" where assistance is still provided, but with increased effort required of the driver.
*However, this sensor was deleted at some point, (maybe with the change from Mk20 to Mk60 ABS), and the steering angle sensor, along with the road speed, only is used.
So, I'd suggest looking to see if your car has the G250, if it has, that is a likely suspect I reckon. Ross-Tech info here.
If not, then electro mechanical problem, as earlier posts.
Mac.
Bordos
Member
My car is 2005 and it does not has the G250 but G85 (within the steering wheel "tape") - and its signal is proper ( I have check it in the ABS module - steering angle changes smooth, with front wheels straight i got 0 degrees).
I cannot understand why even though I get a beep and fault indication on the dash, there aren't any faults stored in any controller...
Edit:
OK - I never saw the SSP240 until now - so the fault should be stored in Instrument Clauser (17).
I have to study this document - it may be helpful to solve this problem.
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PlasticMac
Member
SSP 240 is a useful resource, for sure.
Steering angle sensor, (clock spring), is monitored by ESP, if no OBD faults, it's OK. Road speed also. The PS controller is part of the PS pump, so maybe that controller is intermittent. Wonder if the canbus connection to the PS controller is poor. No idea if it can be partly dismantled, but cleaning the connector would be a good idea.
Good luck.
Mac.
I have had similar issues, when reversing off my drive, but on feeling the heavyness of steering the pump would wake up and function normally for the rest of the day.
Since then I replaced battery cleaned up earths, then the alternator failed and replaced a 90A for an used 110A unit.
No problems since, so it`s definitely an electrical gremlin.
Since then I replaced battery cleaned up earths, then the alternator failed and replaced a 90A for an used 110A unit.
No problems since, so it`s definitely an electrical gremlin.
Bordos
Member
So I did some progress with this issue:
1. The motor within power steering HPU us a BLDC one - so there are no brushes - so that one can be excluded,
2. Replaced the oil in HPU for a new OEM Audi - no effect on this fault,
3. All mass connections are cleaned now - it doesn't seem to affect this issue in any way (in fact only the engine bay point was "dirty" and the only result is better starter motor operation),
4. I have dismounted and inspected the alternator - it has a bit of corroded connections, but cleaned all of those and now I measure voltage of 14,5V in my cigarette lighter port with the engine on,
5. A looked on the HPU connectors - those are not looking wet or damaged - did not disconnect them as it is not possible with the bumper on - so I will first arrange new connectors for both lines with new wiring - so I anything looks suspicious I will install new cabling for this.
6. I have cleaned CAN connections near the A-Pillar mass point.
Now "strange" observations:
1. This fault usually occurs only once - It cuts of the steering, beeps at me and trigger the steering wheel fault lamp, and then its gone - it usually don't occurs during this trip.
2. When the fault is on (steering off) - is usually helps to brake until almost stop and then release the brake not gently (to jerk the car) - and the fault is disappearing...
1. The motor within power steering HPU us a BLDC one - so there are no brushes - so that one can be excluded,
2. Replaced the oil in HPU for a new OEM Audi - no effect on this fault,
3. All mass connections are cleaned now - it doesn't seem to affect this issue in any way (in fact only the engine bay point was "dirty" and the only result is better starter motor operation),
4. I have dismounted and inspected the alternator - it has a bit of corroded connections, but cleaned all of those and now I measure voltage of 14,5V in my cigarette lighter port with the engine on,
5. A looked on the HPU connectors - those are not looking wet or damaged - did not disconnect them as it is not possible with the bumper on - so I will first arrange new connectors for both lines with new wiring - so I anything looks suspicious I will install new cabling for this.
6. I have cleaned CAN connections near the A-Pillar mass point.
Now "strange" observations:
1. This fault usually occurs only once - It cuts of the steering, beeps at me and trigger the steering wheel fault lamp, and then its gone - it usually don't occurs during this trip.
2. When the fault is on (steering off) - is usually helps to brake until almost stop and then release the brake not gently (to jerk the car) - and the fault is disappearing...
PlasticMac
Member
I am going to suggest you do a basic settings on the steering angle sensor. If the ABS senses a problem, it reduces the steering assistance to compensate. This would fit with it clearing with a sharp brake on/off, which convinced the ABS that all is well again.
To start with, check that the steering angle sensor reports zero degrees when the front wheels are straight ahead. The steering wheel should also be in the centre position.
Mac.
To start with, check that the steering angle sensor reports zero degrees when the front wheels are straight ahead. The steering wheel should also be in the centre position.
Mac.